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Heavy weapons squads or tanks?
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Old 04 Feb 2010, 01:12   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

I'm having a problem with choosing one or the other in the topic above. I have listed the pros and cons of both.

Tanks(leman russ, presumed)
pros:
-strong vehicle
-can hold more fire power than a heavy weapons unit(like 2 guys on a base)
-ability to use pie plates
-invulnerable really to strength 8 and below weapons(not all the time, melta and dark/bright lances)
-can still fire all weapons even if moved 6 inches.

Cons:
-can lose all of weapons at once do to anit tank weapon
-a lot of points
-not subtle at all
Heavy weapons team:
pros:
-not subject to other lascannons, it will only kill 1 guy then you can fire back
-can field anti-tank weapons for a lot cheaper
-doesn't attract a lot of fire, good for looking subtle than blowing up a tank or tearing up a squad.
-annoying distracting, could tip the balance of enemy squads retreating or taking a toll before getting into combat
-able to be set up by transport to outflank enemies(like a valkyrie)

cons:
-subject to small arms fire
-subject to blasts
-cannot bristle with fire power like battle tanks
-cannot move and shoot on the same turn.

Basically, I'd like to field a lot of tanks, but the idea of flying a valkyrie/vendetta 24 inches, firing, than unloading 2 heavy weapons squads that are still able to fire seems like any squad they get to close to would die, allowing them free reign and or creating a distraction being 90 degrees opposite of your army, using what I like to call, the hammer and anvil. The squads are the anvil, and my army is the hammer. It makes it hard for them to escape. But I like how LRBT's can rumble down the field guns blazing. Please help!
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Old 04 Feb 2010, 03:17   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

I think you're a little confused as to what a HW squads do.

You do NOT want to move your HW squads by transport or outflank them. Find a good spot, preferably during deployment, and sit them there and shoot every turn. As for your firepower, for points cost you can get a lot more firepower from HW teams than you can from your LRBT. Your HW squads can more easily make use of cover, and can also hide inside infantry squads to provide a lot of expendable wounds before you have to remove the base.

Realistically, both are better but I put my faith in the HW teams. They always do a lot more good for me than my LRBT's, mostly because they are lower on my opponent's priority list, allowing them to get more shots in.

To give a little comparison, your basic LRBT will cost you 150 points, while a lascannon team as part of a HW squad will cost you only 35 points, allowing you to have 4 lascannons for 140 points. That's 4 lascannons versus a battle cannon and a heavy bolter.
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Old 04 Feb 2010, 03:19   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

This will make up your mind pretty quickly units that disembark from a transport count as moving so they cant just jump out and fire their heavy weapons. Your strategy to use them like a harder hitting version of special weapon/veteran squad trick wont run as smoothly.

@USAFTACP while you make a good point with the lascannons, personally I think the tank is better as it has better survivability and has devastating effect on both infantry and vehicles. For high point games I prefer to have one lascannon squad just in case and 2 with bolters and autocannons to cover my troops as the move forward. in lower point games I'll just take some auto cannons dotted in my platoon squads and leave the heavy hitting to a russ or bassie
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Old 04 Feb 2010, 04:20   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

I had only included the lascannons as a comparison. Lascannon's being the most expensive weapon for a HW squad to have. Yes the LRBT has better survivability, but for pure destruction it cannot compare to HW teams. point for point they are just capable of more damage. Also putting HW teams into cover gives them an incredible amount of survivability, sometimes moreso than the LRBT.

I of course use both, but I find that I prefer to use only 1-2 LRBT's and put the rest of my points into HW teams.
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Old 04 Feb 2010, 21:36   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

It's like comparing apples and oranges. It can't be done.

Both have very different battlefeild roles. About the only thing they have in common is support.

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Old 05 Feb 2010, 12:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

Just so people are aware Heavy Weapon Teams are VERY susceptible to S6 or higher weaponry, as it instant kills them. Heavy Weapon Teams hidden in infantry squads can get around this through ablative wounds, but heavy weapon SQUADS have a harder time with this. A single multi-laser has a chance (slim) to take out an entire Heavy weapon SQUAD.
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Old 05 Feb 2010, 15:16   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnightCuron
Just so people are aware Heavy Weapon Teams are VERY susceptible to S6 or higher weaponry, as it instant kills them. Heavy Weapon Teams hidden in infantry squads can get around this through ablative wounds, but heavy weapon SQUADS have a harder time with this. A single multi-laser has a chance (slim) to take out an entire Heavy weapon SQUAD.
I think everyone is aware of this, but with the ease of cover nowadays I rarely lose any guardsmen without them getting a 4++. Cover is a guardsmen's best friend and I'll never put my HW squads out in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 06 Feb 2010, 02:13   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

I feel like I asked a question, and then got an answer, but it wasn't really an answer, you guys just danced around your point. I want to know what can be used for more hammers and anvils(a type of tactic my friends and I know, I think it's pretty self explanatory)
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Old 06 Feb 2010, 11:14   #9 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

Oh really? USAFTACP's analysis has more merit; you're comparing apples and oranges. Look at the weapons available to Infantry and Tanks.
Heavy Bolter: Anti-Medium Infantry
Autocannon: Anti-Medium Vehicle
Missile Launcher: Multi-Role
Lascannon: Anti-Heavy Vehicle
Battle Cannon: Anti-MEQ
Eradicator Nova Cannon: Anti-Medium Infantry
Exterminator Autocannon: Anti-Medium Vehicle
Executioner Plasma Cannon: Anti-TEQ/MC
Demolisher Cannon: Anti-TEQ/MC
Punisher Gatling Cannon: Anti-Light Infantry
Vanquisher Cannon: Anti-Heavy Vehicle

As you can see our Infantry Heavy Weapons lack a good Anti-MEQ/TEQ weapon which Tank Weapons can fill out nicely. Tank Weapons lack real armor busting capabilities but the Infantry can take the spot with relatively cheaper and more numerous Lascannons/Autocannon.
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Old 22 Feb 2010, 16:45   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Heavy weapons squads or tanks?

Too bad HW teams can't take Plasma Cannons...
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