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Chimera and the 5 fire points
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 16:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Chimera and the 5 fire points

I know this been asked before but I need some clarification again. Reference materials would be nice as well. I never had a problem until I played at a gw store go figure. Do the 5 fire points shoot lasblaster shots or do you shoot what the crew is equipped with.

Cause in the game I was forced to use it as being open topped and can't fire my vehicle weapons at all. i was trying to tell them the open topped rule is from the old rules and the new chimera don't count as being open topped.

The big argument is if i can shoot 4 melta shots from the hatch. cause the vehicle rules came up where you can only shot one weapon at over str5 and the rest at str 4 or lower.


My argument is the crew is separate from the vehicle and follow the rules for assault and rapid fire weapons shooting form the fire points.

So back to my original question. When you fire from the hatch is it lasgun shots or would it be the melta shots. The wording is kinda messed up and cause some confusion.

My solution might to be not to play at a red shirt store cause they really don't know the rules as well as they should.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 16:56   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

You do in fact fire what the crew is equipped with, and the vehicle wont count as open topped the following turn.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 17:13   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

I realise that and most educated players with common sense do. But I wanted to know if there is a faq, example or something the breaks it down so a person that have a hard time understanding such things would understand.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 17:37   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

As far as i know, RAW codex is the way to go. GW felt it was clear enough that it didnt need an FAQ. but thats them. I personally think that it should count as open topped, seeing as you are fireing from the hatch, but it doesnt say in the 'dex that it is open topped, so it isnt.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
It is (and this is an objective statement, looking at examples over the last century) really ****ing hard to terrorise the British.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'o Ahab
In parting, I've discovered why Farsight started his breakaway faction...
*Farsight looks at Dawn Blade* "Shiny..."*Farsight picks up Dawn Blade and looks around* "... let's be bad guys."
Quote:
Originally Posted by The man they call Waffles
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 17:41   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
As far as i know, RAW codex is the way to go. GW felt it was clear enough that it didn't need an FAQ. but that's them. I personally think that it should count as open topped, seeing as you are firing from the hatch, but it doesn't say in the 'Dex that it is open topped, so it isn't.
The main argument is if I can fire my 4 meltas from it or do they use the lasguns on the sides. I really wish the didn't say "in reality you're using the lasguns." That statement is what is causing the confusion. Also since I'm shooting str 8 shots I should only be able to shoot 1 and not all 4.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 17:44   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

The crew in the back do not count towards the amount of weapons the vehicle can fire. the chimera can fire its multilaser/heavy bolter/autocannon, and the guys inside can fire what they have.

You can fire all for 4 meltas from the hatch, i face 3 chimeras all the time, one with multimeltas, one with flamers and one with plasma, and they are all devestating units.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
It is (and this is an objective statement, looking at examples over the last century) really ****ing hard to terrorise the British.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'o Ahab
In parting, I've discovered why Farsight started his breakaway faction...
*Farsight looks at Dawn Blade* "Shiny..."*Farsight picks up Dawn Blade and looks around* "... let's be bad guys."
Quote:
Originally Posted by The man they call Waffles
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 18:16   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

Pg 39 of the IG codex:

Quote:
Fire Points: Five models can fire from the Chimera's top hatch.
Pg 66 of the BRB:

Quote:
A transport vehicle may have a number of fire points defined in its entry. A fire point is a hatch or gun slit from which one or more passengers inside the vehicle can fire.
The fire points section of the rules does not specify which weapons can be fired from fire points, only that they count as moving if the vehicle moves.

5th Ed. FAQ:

Quote:
Q. Must passengers fire at the same target that
their vehicle is firing at?

A. No, they are a separate unit (albeit they are
temporarily co-existing with the vehicle) and so
can fire at a different target.
All is very cut and dry. You should educate the people you're playing against rather than let them continue to discourage people from playing with the proper rules. An oddity with the separate unit situation is that if you shoot and blow up a transport, you can then charge the occupants.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 18:38   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

But that oddity is also addressed as a rules exception to the 'charge what you shot at' general rule.

The squad doesn't need to fire at what the vehicle fires at and thats just the way it is. It doesn't hamper the vehicle's shooting at all, it is doing its own thing. If the vehicle moved, then obviously the squad inside it are moving too, but that does not make them the same unit as far as rules nitpicking is concerned about choosing targets. They are not the Chimera, they are an IG infantry squad, and they shoot at whatever they want to regardless of where their babysitting trans shovels them, but when moving mounted, they obviously count as 'moving' because they moved where their transport did. If they moved, they count as 'moving'.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 19:03   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

I'd also like to point out that even in the "In reality" portion of the listing, it still says they are all counted as firing from the top hatch for simplicity. Don't really see how there's any arguing with that.
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Old 28 Jan 2010, 19:21   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Chimera and the 5 fire points

On a small side track, how do you have 4 meltas in the squad?
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