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Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?
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Old 25 Dec 2009, 11:15   #1 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

Lately, I've hardly seen anyone with a Static Gunline list. Yeah sure, maybe they ain't the most competitive as Mechanized but still, it's respectable. I know I have losses with such lists but it would've been a tie or a win [if I had played properly enough :P]. And I know they're easy pickings for more CC-orientated armies but I do quite well enough against Mech armies; picking them off with Plasma Guns, Meltaguns, Autocannons and Lascannons as well as adding in Bring it Down!

What your views on Static Gunline?
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Old 25 Dec 2009, 13:23   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?



Let us look critically at the pros and cons without letting our sentimentality get in the way. Then we will look at the reasons why we want gunlines to work.

CONS

You need to remember that Mobility is the byword of 5th Edition. - Vehicles are a lot tougher since you a glancing hit no longer estroys it, 2/3 of all missions involve grabbing and holding objectives and you need to be able to go out and capture objectives when you have to. So we add Veterans in Chimeras and/or Valkyries/Vendettas for that mobility. Survivability and mobility for your troops is the reason we use transports. Without them most armies can outmaneuver you, out survive you and out shoot you. So we would need to heavily compensate for this weakness. Without mobility how do we survive and cover our troops against a mech army seeking to take advantage of this weakness? Add in the fact that a good well rounded army with some cc units will hit your lines on turn two and you had best have some answers. They will charge their tanks and then unload and even with all the dakka we possess, is it enough to get all the tanks? You are often bunched up so a charge can engage multiple units as well. A pure gunline army is giving away balance. I don't like pure Air Cav for the same reason. You need both a some static elements and some mech elements combined. Mobility is good because it allows you to apply force with more precision but some sytaic elements do help. A mobile army will your flank and roll it up if you deploy a static line. If you lose first turn your opponent is halfway to your lines before you get to shoot.

PROS

Gunlines can work. If you want to invest in a gunline army, I would invest heavily in Heavy Artillery. The Run! Run! Run! order can help and you can blast your enemies off of objectives as well. It is easier to capture after bombarding them with your gunline and you do not need your army geared specifically to mobile firepower. Set up crossfires. Make good use of your orders. Don't move to capture objectives early. Wait until the opponent has been damaged sufficiently to make it feasible. A full infantry list can cover the entire board in fire. Deploy with a good starting board position and a static line will definitely leave a mark. Think of howe much extra utility you can purchase without the expense of vehicles. You ned to understand though that a static IG gunline wins or loses it's games at deployment. We need to bring maximum firepower. I've designed lists with ten -twelve lascannons, four to six ordnance barrages, as many heavy weapons as I could fit and two CCS issuing orders. Against AV12 that's enough. you can immobilize or stun your enemy's transports. That allows you the time for an extra full turn of shooting and if you tarpit a squad or two you can get three turns of shooting.

Now for some sentimentality

Weighing up the pros and cons, I have to say that static gunline armies will not be the most competitive. However let's be honest - the "fluff" for the Guard has been massed infantry, heavy artillery and their Commissars. I picture the army have full faith in the Imperium, grinding relentlessly forward with masses of artillery with infantry in support. We blow up everything and let our opponent get trampled under the boots of hundreds of guardsmen. Alas, we are seeing more and more guard armies composed oif elite veteran units. So are gunlines any 'good'? Well yes, you can still play a gunline army and win. Despite GW doing its best to make mechanized forces superior - vets as troops, cheaper chimeras, overpowered vendetta weaponry and rules - we can still enjoy a gunline army with our new codex.
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Old 25 Dec 2009, 13:29   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

Never really tried mech because of my lack of chimeras. I have used static guard or only hybrid guard since 3rd ed. It is true that i only managed draws in 5th Ed, but i'm sure i'll win one soon enough.

In a 1500pts game i usually use something like this, tweaking a little to hit 1500 or less:
2X commands with master of ordnance
Veterans with lascannon
Platoon with missile launcher, 3Xinfantry with Heavy bolters, Infantry with missile launcher, Heavy weapons teams with 6missiles, 3 Autocannons
3 Outfanking sentinels with multi-lasers
2 Demolishers
1 or 2 Russ battle tanks in a squadron

The sentinels and normal russes can easily take care of units staying in the enemy's deployment zone so that's not a problem. The officers in the command squad are used as a counter-charge after spamming First rank second rank fire or bring it down. Those two orders are really useful.
When the enemy's army hits my line almost 2/3 of hit are gone, sadly the 1/3left usually butcher almost all my force ending the game in a draw of VP's.

I'm thinking i need some sort of better counter attack. Something more durable than RoughRaiders but still cheaper than Ogryns.

This army does better against other shootys (static or mech) like tau or other guard. Sadly all those player are now using the space wolf codex. CC armies tend to be my problem.

To end it off, methinks i have about the same views as you do. Mech and mobile are probably stronger, but static is a change from my horde nids and horde orks lists. I still need to try horde infantry Ig, worked really well in 4th because of the ridiculous amount of heavy weapons and lasguns.
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Old 25 Dec 2009, 13:43   #4 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

@ Nobody: Excellent post. It's true that Gunline is quite vulnerable in CC but when do Guard ever excel in CC. Mediocre maybe but still...

I've never found objectives to be a problem since I wanna take out the threats first (as you said in your post) before I actually move in. But I must say I do quite well enough against Mech armies since my 2 Infantry Platoons are brimming with Anti-Vehicle weapons e.g. Plasma Gun + Autocannon (I like to have as many Strength 7 shots as possible) and Meltagun + Lascannon (Somehow and for some reason, people like driving their Land Raiders/Falcons up my face).

Anyway, as for CC, I usually put my Infantry Squads into Combined Infantry Squads with a Commissar. I know they're at risk of being overrun but their survivability has risen exponentially since I did this. Stubborn and Ld 9 as well as 50 Guardsmen are no joke. And I do have Straken around; quite a good Commander as he has some nasty CC abilities as well as being quite the officer as he can hand out 2 Orders per turn. Not that I use him for CC but it's nice to have him around.

I have been quite attached to the Refused Flank deployment as I only have 1 less flank to look after. I can quite easily placed my Heavy and Special Weapons where I want them to be. Mostly out of cover but since they're in a Combined Infantry Squad, I hide the majority behind cover thus gaining the 4+ Cover Save.
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Old 25 Dec 2009, 14:43   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

The new consolidation rules means enemy assaults are going to have to be well-timed and co-ordinated in order to sweep a flank..Even a Terminator Assault squad or tooled-up HQ can't roll a gunline anymore. Problem is that you often face multiple squads. So you need heavy weapons everywhere. Also fielding Heavy Weapons in Command Squads if they're going to be static for Ld purposes and orders should be mandatory. You canít control the terrain or table you play on unfortunately, but you can control half of the objective placement and this is where you shut down mech armies. A combination of solid tactics and units with proper deployment goes a long way.

All that being said I think when the new Tyranid codex is released you will have some problems with no transports.
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Old 26 Dec 2009, 13:12   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

With my army, i currently use a hybrid list. All my infantry are put into three combined squads (Of 50) one with alrahem 9Provides a nice suprise with 50 men arriving on the enemies flank) and he adds mobility. I tend to also use 2 LRBT's and 1 medusa. So i use the infantry to surround and circle the enemy into a group 9Whilst guardsmen are hard to seem threatening, when there are 50 of them the enemy doesn't fancy charging them. Once the enemy is in a rough group i pound them with the battle cannons and medusa.

I also use 2 sentinals to sort of shephard the enemy together and snipe tanks (With a las cannon)

this tactic seems to work well, since the new codex i havn't lost a game out of 1-15 games.... I wouldn't say a gun line is out dated, it just needs the right support elements to help it out. Remember safety in numbers and 'FRFSRF' is a gunlines best freind.

Edit- Ment to say that my infantry squads also all have a commissar in
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Old 26 Dec 2009, 13:25   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

I'm with Chris my current set up has at it's core a full sized platoon with heavy weapons squads and some armour to back it up around it I'm going to build some mobile troop elements so I can concentrate the platoon into 50 man squad I'm also goign to build up an artillery battery using earthshaker platforms so the main stay of my army will be the static line with more mobile elements to support, move in quickly and force the opponent into fire lanes
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Old 26 Dec 2009, 14:05   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?


Look, anything that can charge after a deep strike is tough for guard. Your base of merged stubborn squads are an excellent tarpit. I am not a fan of 50 man squads, btw, but let them hit a blob of thirty men and then you can shoot them to threads. I understand some players using three or four combined squads with commissars and power weapons, attempting to benefit from Straken's aura. I think we can tar pit well without Straken and the expense of power weapons though. Without mobility we cannot choose who we attack. That is ther real problem. The opponent is dictating the terms of engagement which more often than not means we will lose assault. For myself I cannot have enough Autocannons in my list. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Rough Riders in a static based list. The plan wou;d be to soften up the opposition with our heavy support and send them in against nearly anything. Unfortunately TH/SS Terminators will generally still laugh them off. Again, please don't think I'm knocking the static gunline. I'm just saying that we need to find ways to make them effective and compensate for their weaknesses.
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Old 26 Dec 2009, 14:29   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

I've been running an exclusively gunline army since 4th ed, and the only loss I have in 5th was against a Space Wolves army, and even then my opponent was taken down to one squad I couldn't get to. So, I do believe that they are not going the way of the dodo, in fact, I believe they are much stronger!
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Old 26 Dec 2009, 14:33   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard Static Gunline: Going way of the Dodo?

As i already said. For a static gun line to work effectivly, we need to find the right units to support it. The first thing we need to adress is what will make the enemy come to us. Usually sitting in our deployment zone would do this normally, but i like to reinforce this with a bit of armour, giving a punch to the line with a few tanks. Perhaps it is the large blast, but i think a standard LRBT fills this job well. Once the enemy is in range, try to thin the ranks with FRFSRF. Before blasting chnks out. Of course, this only really works if the opponant is an infantry army. If they are mounted up, then take it out with heavy weapons ASAP. stranding their mobile squads and then taking them down one by one.

But remember, it is never overkill FRFSRFing a squad of 50 on to and enemy of 10. 9Whilst fun watching the horrorified look on your opponents face as you roll 100+ dice) we need evey shot to count. And once that squad is deadm, rinse and repeat on every single other thing.


I also find that putflanking sentianals with las cannons work well to hunt down the enemy armour and kill them quickly.

Hope that helped
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