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How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?
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Old 17 Nov 2009, 08:05   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

Im am soon to be starting a Catachan list, and I have been thinking about running it this way.

Iron Hand Straken(for the 12' radius of Furious Charge and counter attack)
Ministorum Priests attached to squads(for re-rolls). Not to mention with Eviscerators, they are melee power-houses and 4+ Invun.
3 Infantry Squads each with priests and within 12' of Straken.

Don't worry about support, Im packing 3 Leman Russ for that.

Does this seem pratical? Any suggestions?
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Old 17 Nov 2009, 09:29   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

You're better off firing at close-range rather than trying to bash your enemy with your lasgun. Catachan maybe slightly better at CC than your average Guardsmen but they aren't dumb enough to try to fight a Space Marine. Stick to your strength; shooting. At best, Guard can be quite good at Counterattack.
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Old 17 Nov 2009, 09:45   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

When it comes to the Guard, remember this: Infantry win firefights, tanks win battles, and artillery win wars. The strength of the Guard lies not in its men (except inasmuch as sheer numbers are concerned) but in its hardware. The workhorses of any Guard army are not infantry, but tanks and artillery. The most important element of a Guard force is its vehicles and the firepower they bring to bear on the enemy.

Guardsmen are cheap, and can be tooled up with a number of options to help them in close combat, but they're only WS3, S3, and I3. Straken is useful for bolstering the line and even forming a core of dangerous counter-charge units, but ultimately the lack of available dedicated assault units means that it will be hard to build an assault-oriented list around him. Armies like Khorne CSM, Genestealers, Blood Angels and certain Eldar and Dark Eldar lists will dominate Guradsmen in close combat no matter how hard they try.

At the end of the day, the Guard are not geared towards assault - infantry take and hold objectives and move through areas dangerous to vehicles, but they don't charge headlong into the serried ranks of the enemy. Straken can make quite a formidable counter-charge unit to help stave off more specialised assault forces, but he's expensive, and there's only one of him.
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Old 17 Nov 2009, 11:37   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

BULL MONKEYS! guard can be great at CQC i had my death korps kick the snot out of eldar, space marines, chaos space marines, and even orks in CQC the trick is soften the target and have 20 - 50 angry man rifle but them to oblivion with furious charge.and have your commisar around.
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Old 17 Nov 2009, 13:10   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

Straken is nasty. With a few big squads in cover, he is great for holding down a line. Catachan lists with the new book have a lot of nice options.
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Old 18 Nov 2009, 15:34   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Storm
The strength of the Guard lies not in its men (except inasmuch as sheer numbers are concerned) but in its hardware. The workhorses of any Guard army are not infantry, but tanks and artillery. The most important element of a Guard force is its vehicles and the firepower they bring to bear on the enemy.
You must have limited experience with IG to have that view. Infantry has always been the IG's strength, they are cheap and effective. Like you said yourself, "Infantry win firefights" and that's the scale of the average 40k game on the table. "tanks win battles" pertains to Appocalypse scale games.

I'm having the same results as falkenhayn with my mob of guardsmen in CC. They have torn space marines and eldar up in CC. People don't expect guardsmen to do so well so they tend to rush headlong into the mob, just to put a smile on my face.

Iv'e reacently added 3 auto cannons to the 31 man mob just to frustrate my opponents even more. They absolutely can't ignore the unit and they can't shoot enough to kill the mob when they get cover saves. So, the only solution is to engage them in CC where the mob has 12 power weapon attacks from the commissar and sergeants alone. If you keep shooting at any thing approaching the infantry there isn't much left to fight in CC any way. If you have to you can have rough riders standing by to assault any unit that the mob has engaged in CC and is having trouble killing, I've not felt the need to do that though.

I think Straken is just overkill at this point. Priests are 'meh', commissars are gold.
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Old 22 Nov 2009, 16:27   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

Use them in the right places at the right time it may work out.

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Old 22 Nov 2009, 17:38   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

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Originally Posted by xenoscd
Use them in the right places at the right time it may work out.

:
Lemme see you try to take on a 5-man Assault Terminator Squad, 10-man Assault/Vanguard Veteran Squad, 5-Orks Nob Bikers or even 30 Ork Boys. Imperial Guard will fall under more assault-orientated easy. Stick to your strength and don't try to play on their field.
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Old 23 Nov 2009, 17:53   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

I disagree Zenai.

Guard win assaults by not losing them. The biggest nightmare I've faced against guard are the big ~30-man squads with power weapons and commisars everywhere. It's like hitting a brick wall and it ties you up for far too long compared to how cheap it is. A couple of these squads are gold.
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Old 23 Nov 2009, 18:36   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: How effective can Imperial Guard be at CC?

If you want to throw bodies just to slow down your opponent, you may as well use Conscripts. One of the reasons why I don't suggest CC-Guard is that their Shooting is their main strength and not bashing their enemy's skull with their Lasgun butt. At best, you use them for Counterattack. Shoot them then you may get out of your trench and charge them so they won't get the charging initiative.
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