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Building an IDF themed Army
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Old 12 Oct 2009, 03:09   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Building an IDF themed Army


In honor of a proud portion of my heritage, I am considering starting an Imperial Guard army with an Israeli Defense Force theme. You can get the gist of what I'm getting at if you just read everything that's written in bold.

A few things that are key to making my army that brush up on IDF doctrine:
Intelligence
Air Superiority
Survivability
Creativity
Versatility

To try and represent all of these ideals, I have decided on a few things.

1. Veterans only for Troop Choices.
This represents amount of professionalism and continuous, rigorous training, as well as limited numbers. Recently, the Sayeret (IDF special forces) is reorganizing to conduct battlefield roles including Demolitions, Reconnaissance, and Heavy Weapons/Anti-tank. They emphasize quality against quantity.


2. All vehicles will have camo netting/extra armor.
The Merkava is an extremely tough tank. The air force tried to destroy one to keep it out of the hands of the enemy, but despite 2 direct hits, failed to destroy it. It was later repaired reused. But representing one in 40k in a Guard army is impossible. It can carry 6 soldiers and has a unique rear hatch. With all these advantages including high-tech gadgets and remote-control MGs, it is a heavy, slow tank. Merkavas are also armed with a number of secondary weapons, including internal 60mm mortar, anti-tank missile(s), and 2-3 MGs.


3. Require a Master of Ordinance and Officer of the Fleet.
This represents the air superiority that the IDF demand at all times. When coupled together with superior intelligence, they will strike preeminently to prevent an attack. They cannot afford to give initiative to the enemy (afterall, a jet fighter can fly across all of Israel in 4 minutes at sub-sonic speeds!).


4. Carapace Armor is a must.
Survivability, survivability, survivability. If Israel could have carapace armor, they would no doubt use it on everyone they could.


--------------

What I'm thinking of right now:

HEADQUARTERS – Company Command Squad
Commander w/two bolt pistols
1 Veteran w/Medi-pack
1 Veteran w/Regimental Standard
2 As Missile Launcher Team
Master of Ordinance
Officer of the Fleet
Carapace Armor
All w/Las Pistol, CC weapon for free

Chimera Troop Carrier
Multi-laser, Heavy Bolter, Camo Netting, Hunter-killer, Heavy Stubber

If it's stationary, I can shoot a/an...
Artillery bombardment (*relatively* safely)
Missile Launcher
Hunter-killer (only one-shot, but I don't have to shoot it in turn 1)
Multi-laser
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber
(It's not as fearsome as it looks )


TROOPS – Veteran Squad
All w/Shotguns
3 w/Meltaguns
Grenadiers

(With shotguns, I can shoot 20 times then assault with 20 attacks. I do it with my Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and I love it).

I can get these in the


The rest of the army list is still under evolution. I'm trying to decide if Israel existed in a 40k sense, and had access to these vehicles, would they use them?

1. Which Leman Russ variants
2. Armored Sentinels
3. Valkyries/Vendettas
4. Hellhound Variants
5. Basilisks
6. Manticore Missile Launcher


Are there any opinions or experience with any of the following vehicle combinations?
I currently like 2 Punishers with Heavy Bolters and Camo Netting, 1 with Commander Pask. I really like this idea, but the expense now brings me to very little when it comes to heavy anti-tank power. I do like this because they have great versatility against anything not a heavy tank or 10 Terminators.


I also really like the Vendetta Dropships with Heavy Bolter sponson upgrades. The amount of kill packed in a squadron of those plus being able to drop off a unit that adds to the shooting? If the Vets are in them and the Vendettas don't shoot, they can assault what's left.


For preemptive strikes, I know I like the Basilisk quite a bit, but I rarely see them being that useful (except in Apoc of course where there's super-heavies to deal with). So I was turning my attention towards the Manticore.


Should I just stick to standard Leman Russ variants?
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Old 12 Oct 2009, 16:21   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

i like that , sounds cool, why not try and copy the rifles they use?
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Old 12 Oct 2009, 18:23   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFortunato
i like that , sounds cool, why not try and copy the rifles they use?
Actually, I was debating on customizing the commander's bolt pistols as Uzis somehow. ;D But I'm making another thread for conversion help.
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Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
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Old 12 Oct 2009, 18:33   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

You forgot terrible command and control. :P

(I kid.)

This is a pretty cool idea. I'm interested to see how it turns out.
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Old 13 Oct 2009, 19:20   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

thats the only problem really, to my understanding, the israeli army uses a bull-pup rifle (that means its shorter and more compact). Guard models are equipped to have long rifles, you'd have to find some way of positioning the arms :0
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Old 13 Oct 2009, 22:58   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFortunato
thats the only problem really, to my understanding, the israeli army uses a bull-pup rifle (that means its shorter and more compact). Guard models are equipped to have long rifles, you'd have to find some way of positioning the arms :0
Israel doesn't really have any "standard" rifle at all. It varies from mission-to-mission and position-to-position. Generally speaking though, you're thinking about the *new* Tavor TAR-21 assault rifle. M-16 is still a primary weapon to my understanding, but Israel is working on completely replacing it with the TAR-21. All special forces units have access to it though.

There is a bullpup lasgun though that I can use. The Elysian Drop Troops use them, but they're nothing like the TAR-21. They do come with shotguns though, which is what I'm aiming for. I was thinking about arming my Command Squad with the Elysian-style weapon pack you can buy from Forge World.


As the Command Squad is a long-range, hide in the Chimera unit, I was considering replacing the regimental standard with a sniper rifle.
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If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
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Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 16 Oct 2009, 15:50   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

As a fellow Guard player, may I recommend NOT using Pask and a punisher. Too copy my good friend Mkoll from bootcamp, it makes the tank VERY inefficient. Its better to buy heavy bolter sponsons. It makes its points back quicker. An extra BS isn't that useful for 50pts. Consider Pask for a vanquisher instead.

And heavy stubbers are amazing in my view. A little ace in the hole, for only 10 points. Letting rip 9 shots from a transport never gets old.

First post on Tau online, hi y'all!
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Old 16 Oct 2009, 17:15   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

Pask is overkill on a vanquisher. Mine works out just fine without him. He finds his best home in an Exterminator where a full spread of heavy bolters and a heavy stubber makes him an absolute monstrosity at taking down monstrous creatures with wild abandon as well as basically any vehichle short of AV14, which he can still tackle if you're willing to take the risk.
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Old 16 Oct 2009, 19:24   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
Pask is overkill on a vanquisher. Mine works out just fine without him. He finds his best home in an Exterminator where a full spread of heavy bolters and a heavy stubber makes him an absolute monstrosity at taking down monstrous creatures with wild abandon as well as basically any vehichle short of AV14, which he can still tackle if you're willing to take the risk.
Ironically enough, Pask in a Punisher isn't as overkill as it sounds (I've tested an re-tested with MEQ and GEQ targets, Terminators, and Monstrous Creatures). I tested my theory for the first time playing against Tyranids (Vassal). I certainly didn't expect to win. I had two units of Veterans, the HQ Chimera transport, and Pask and his "wingman".

The Tyranids had a Flyrant with two scything talons and warp field, 12 Warriors with extended carapace, 19 spinegaunts, 20 spinegaunts, 10 Hormagaunts, AND a Broodlord with 5 Genestealers. It was a 1,000 point match.

From deployment all the way to the end of turn 4, and then after half of turn five, I thought I was going to lose, but I expected the outcome.


DEPLOYMENT
I just wanted to test the units, I didn't really care for winning, but as I always am, I set up carefully and take a minute or so to execute a plan. I put every single model in a large row of trees on the edge of my deployment zone, and there was room to spare.

Six Tyranid Warriors flanked a far right (my view), the other 6 and the Flyrant controlled the center; the gaunts were around them, with the Genestealers and Broodlord set in tactical reserve behind them.


-----------------
TURN ONE
The Tyranids on the right took some long-distant shots with their 5 Deathspitters and Barbed Strangler, and managed to kill 6 of my Veterans. The Standard Bearer actually came in handy, while being nicely tucked away in a vehicle. (The rules say nothing about LOS.) The Flyrant came dangerously closer with a 12" jump, and all those Tyranids swarming behind it; it felt like a Tyranid invasion.


On my turn, my Veterans spread out a little and the Chimera's weapons and men inside shot at the Tyranid Warriors on the flank. The HQ vehicle dropped 1 and wounded another. Pask and his buddy shot at full speed at the Flyrant, dealing a total of 13 wounds. My opponent, who hadn't encountered the new Guard very often, was quite surprised, but the Flyrant made 11 armor saves and only took two wounds.



-----------------
TURN TWO
The Tyranid Warriors finish off my Veterans and move closer to the Chimera. The Flyrant, unsure of himself, veered off towards some cover as the rest of the Tyranids pressed on, squishing themselves behind a weak, ruined wall.


On my turn, Pask and his friend only dealt 9 wounds, and the Hive Tyrant takes another wound, saving 8. I had completely forgotten about the Hunter-killer Missiles, which probably would've made all the difference in the world and saved my strategy. The HQ Chimera shot at the Termagaunts that were now in my deployment zone, and did some pretty fair damage despite their cover save.

Now here's where I became proud. I shouted, "For Israel!" in a Jewish accent, and shot a load of shotguns into the 19 Termagaunts that were now in my deployment zone. After that, I shouted, "Here's Krav Maga in your face!" and assaulted them. They went first, but because of the previous shooting, they didn't get that many attacks in. In return, my Veterans won combat 8:2. Being Fearless, they had to take armor saves for not running away, which finished off the last batch. My Veterans had killed them all.



------------------
TURN THREE
The Warriors shoot at the Chimera, and the Hive Tyrant flies very close, but fails all of his difficult terrain tests trying to assault (he needed 6"). The Genestealers and 10 Hormagaunts assaulted, barely making it. All of them had flesh hooks and went first, but after the Broodlord and 1 Genestealer in range to attack, there wasn't much left for the Hormagaunts, and my Veterans are swallowed by the tide.


Back around to my turn, I had the Chimera do a surprising thing, I had it and it's contents shoot at the Hive Tyrant, and it was a successful kill! I turned my Punisher's attention to the biggest threat they had: the Genestealers. In one sweep, I killed all the Genestealers and left the Broodlord with a single wound. The Chimera was free to shoot at the Tyranid Warriors creeping up on the flank, and it inflicted a no-save wound, killing one.



----------------
TURN FOUR
In his turn, his Warriors on the right flank shot at the Chimera with no results. The other Warriors shot at the Leman Russ, but he was unaware the side armor was 13, and didn't run with them. Everything else moved over the ruins closer to my stuff. The Broodlord managed to charge my Leman Russ Squadron, blowing up Pask's wingman.


This time, the Chimera shot at the Warriors on the flank (which killed 1 and wounded another), while the HQ unit inside shot everything but the bombardment at the Broodlord. To my surprise, the twin-linked Bolt Pistol came in handy, as did the laspistols, both dealing a wound. It was too much for the Broodlord, and he died under the fury of attacks. Pask was then free to shoot at the Tyranid Warriors, killing 2.



----------------
TURN FIVE
The flanking Tyranid Warriors reach assault range of the tank, shoot and then assault it. That 3+ save came in handy twice now. Despite the Tyranid Warriors getting auto-hits, they do no damage. The Spinegaunts and Hormagaunts crowd closer and wait like a swarm of ants looking up to the humans dropping food.


My HQ Chimera shoots everything at the Warriors, but unable to get in a frag missile (or bombardment for that matter) inflict 2 wounds, killing 1 and wounding another. Pask shoots at the Warriors again, and again kills 2.


----------------
TURN SIX
This time, the Warriors blow up the Chimera, and lose a wounded Warrior. I lost the loader to the Missile Launcher. Once again, the Standard Bearer came in handy as I failed my pinning test with a 12. I think it's well worth it at this point, along with the Medic.

The HQ, now out in the cold, bravely shoot their weapons at the Warriors, killing another. If it weren't for their immunity to Instant Death, they'd all be dead before they blew up the Chimera. Pask guns down the lone Warrior that was right there near the HQ.


TURN SEVEN
The Hormagaunts, outside of Synapse Range, are pinned and unable to assault the HQ. The Termagaunts shoot a ton of shots at the HQ, but the Medic is able to help prevent wounds and saves all but the Standard Bearer and the Officer of the Fleet. The Spinegaunts then assaulted them, but could not overwhelm the HQ. The Tyranid Warriors left in the other squad assault Pask, but do no damage.

Pask turned around, gunned down the Warriors, and the Spinegaunts lost assault to the HQ, thanks to the Medic preventing every single wound dealt on the squad. With a Leadership reduced to 5, they failed and were falling back.



RESULTS
It is a slaughtering victory in my favor. Pask and his wingman almost made up for their point cost, killing 7 Tyranid Warriors, almost the Hive Tyrant, almost the Broodlord, and 5 Genestealers, equaling about 482 points. If I had shot off those hunter-killer missiles and didn't do so poorly on shooting in the second turn, I might have killed the Flyrant a turn earlier.

Now, the HQ Chimera also did very well, which really surprised me. They killed 5 Warriors, 6 Spinegaunts (and forced them on the run), another 6 Spinegaunts, and put 1 wound on the Hive Tyrant and Broodlord. This equaled about 315 points.

The three vehicles total made up for their point cost and a little more, with total destruction of 797 points, 79.7% of the army. Nothing compared to my 3 Hammerheads (which tend to almost always make up for their cost), but better than I expected nonetheless.

The Veterans were an understandable disappointment, but the squad that shot and assaulted the Spinegaunts satisfied me enough, doing their job and gaining a kill point.


Against an army with at least 2 tanks (like my standard Tau force with 3 Hammerheads at 1,000 points), I don't think I have a chance of winning. The 1500 is looking brighter and deadlier with the addition of Storm Troopers and two Vendetta Gunships.
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If the Eldar see battle as a symphony,
Then the Elati have mastered a solo piece,
Of every instrument.


Games in the Past Month:
Tau: W-1, T-0, L-1
Witch H: W-0, T-0, L-0
Eldar: W-2, T-0, L-1
Guard: W-0, T-0, L-0
Other: W-2, T-1, L-0
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Old 16 Oct 2009, 23:02   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Building an IDF themed Army

which period will you settle your IDF guards? because i haven't seen Merkava's, Sh'otim, Mag'ach, Nagmash, Nagmachon or Achzarits with camo netting. the only picture/video's i recall are from the 6 day war and Yom Kippur war. but other than that good luck with your project... and make a Russ "Baz".
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