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Valkyrie/Vendetta Questions.
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Old 30 Jun 2009, 08:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Valkyrie/Vendetta Questions.

Okay. The following are all the questions I can think that may or may not have been discussed/asked before for these two units. Displayed as the question followed by my opinion in brackets. When referring to Valkyires, also make note this is relevent to the vendetta.

1. Can a valkyire have its tail/wings hang off the board edge?
(I can find no indication that anything but the base must be on the table).

2. Does verticle height come into consideration when disembarking?
(as it is from the actual exit point on the model by RAW I would say yes, but this clearly would disadvantage a player, RAI I would say it dosn't)

3. What is the Arc of Fire on the wing weapons?
(I'd say its 90 degrees but could possibly be 360)

4. Does Grav Chute Insertion come into play if the models disembark before the Valkyrie/Vendetta moves 24"?
(my bet is no)

5. Is it acceptable to cut down the stand of valkyries to give variation in height for both modeling and display purposes? note this has a direct effect on its original LoS and placment amoungst terrain.
(I say yes, but only because i've already done that)

6. Deep strike
Quote:
Models must be place in base contact with the original model in a circle around it - Page 95 of the little rule book
A valkyire squadron cannot psyically do this (especially with 3 of them). Do you play it as if they can DS hull-hull, or if not, do they then constantly suffer mishaps?
(I would say hull-hull)

7. Do you calculate range to the model or to its base?
(i'm not clear, but have played it as to the model, taking verticle height into consideration)

8. Are the wings/tail part of the Hull?
(Hull being the body, I say no)

9. Do the wings/tail count for LoS, if so, if covered do they help to confer cover?

10. Does the base count as part of the model for LoS? For instance looking through ruins/tunnel/forest etc you may not be able to see the model itself, however its base is visible.
(I say only the model counts for LoS.

11. In addition to question 10, if you said yes, does the base then help to confer cover if it is partially/fully hidden?

12. Does the wing count for assault?

13. Can troops disembark onto 3rd/4th level buildings?

14. if I have two or more valkyires with different height stands, can I swap the stands, leaving the models in the same place?

15. If one model cannot ever occupy the same space another, how do you then legally disembark? Do the wings/tail not count for this? and if not can you then place the wing/tail of one valk under the hull of another if on different height stands?

16. And a fun one, how did GW manage to ###### up the tail elevators on not 1, not 2 but 3 of the 4 Valkyries in the Guard release WD. And not only that, but do it to the one on the back of its box!
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Old 30 Jun 2009, 09:57   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Valkyrie/Vendetta Questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie
1. Can a valkyire have its tail/wings hang off the board edge?
(I can find no indication that anything but the base must be on the table).
That's an interesting question.

Quote:
2. Does verticle height come into consideration when disembarking?
(as it is from the actual exit point on the model by RAW I would say yes, but this clearly would disadvantage a player, RAI I would say it dosn't)
There is no clear answer. Rules As Written you could never deploy from the Valkyrie, which defeats it's purposes. This will probably be FAQed. Generally you should deploy from your base. Discuss with opponent first - if they pull the 'you can't deploy because you are too high up' card on you, find a new opponent - they're a rules lawyer and aren't worth playing against.

Quote:
3. What is the Arc of Fire on the wing weapons?
(I'd say its 90 degrees but could possibly be 360)
As they cannot swivel, this falls back to the fixed arcs as per the BRB

Since they're hull mounted, it's 45 degrees. Even if they were Pintle Mounted weapons, as they are mounted on the hull itself, are also 45 degrees.

Quote:
4. Does Grav Chute Insertion come into play if the models disembark before the Valkyrie/Vendetta moves 24"?
(my bet is no)
RAW says Grav Chute Insertion is only when moving Flat Out, which is anything > 12" up to maximum movement. It hasn't been FAQed that they can't GCI when moving less than Flat Out. Discuss with your opponent first.

If your opponent believes you cannot use GCI while moving Cruising speed, there are some ways around this... you can deploy at the beginning before moving, and move the squad 6". You can move less than 12" and position to deploy at end of movement. Or, you can move slightly more than 12", and thus at Flat Out speed. You can now GCI anywhere along the movement path, but you can't fire any weapons now.

Quote:
5. Is it acceptable to cut down the stand of valkyries to give variation in height for both modeling and display purposes? note this has a direct effect on its original LoS and placment amoungst terrain.
(I say yes, but only because i've already done that)
By RAW, no. Most players probably won't have a problem with it if it does not confer a significant advantage. If they have a problem with it, be willing to count it as N inches taller than it is for LOS purposes (both for you and your opponent).

Quote:
6. Deep strike
Quote:
Models must be place in base contact with the original model in a circle around it - Page 95 of the little rule book
A valkyire squadron cannot psyically do this (especially with 3 of them). Do you play it as if they can DS hull-hull, or if not, do they then constantly suffer mishaps?
(I would say hull-hull)
Skimmer flying stands are ignored for all purposes except for assaulting, in which case models can contact the hull or base (p71, "Measuring Distances"). I'd suggest discussing with opponent, but I imagine coherency distance may suffice.

Quote:
7. Do you calculate range to the model or to its base?
(i'm not clear, but have played it as to the model, taking verticle height into consideration)
See above.

Quote:
8. Are the wings/tail part of the Hull?
(Hull being the body, I say no)
Yes. Otherwise the front half of most Eldar vehicles wouldn't be the 'hull'. You only ignore 'gun barrels, antennas, and other decorative elements' of the model.

For a supporting argument, look under "Measuring Range" for Walkers (p72) where it says "measure to and from its hull (including its legs and other limbs)".

Quote:
9. Do the wings/tail count for LoS, if so, if covered do they help to confer cover?
They're part of the hull, so yes. Even if they aren't, they're not decorative elements or gun barrels. When it comes to determinign if a model blocks LOS to another unit/model, you don't ignore any part of the model - even a banner blocks LOS in that case.

Quote:
10. Does the base count as part of the model for LoS? For instance looking through ruins/tunnel/forest etc you may not be able to see the model itself, however its base is visible.
(I say only the model counts for LoS.

11. In addition to question 10, if you said yes, does the base then help to confer cover if it is partially/fully hidden?
No, as above, the flying stand is ignored. Even if you add decorative elements to it.

Quote:
12. Does the wing count for assault?
Because models cannot reach base contact with the hull/wings usually, they must assault the flying stand.

Quote:
13. Can troops disembark onto 3rd/4th level buildings?
This gets into tricky area - if you want to deploy onto the same level as the flying stand sits at, if you try to do this, your opponent will probably cry foul. You should probably be at the same level you want to deploy at, unless you are using Grav Chute Insertion.

Quote:
14. if I have two or more valkyires with different height stands, can I swap the stands, leaving the models in the same place?
No, last sentence of left column of p71 states you can't remove the flying stand other than for wrecked/immobilized. Many people will cry foul for this as well - you dont see people using telescoping antenna for their skimmers, and I bet you'd have an issue with that if you they did.

Quote:
15. If one model cannot ever occupy the same space another, how do you then legally disembark? Do the wings/tail not count for this? and if not can you then place the wing/tail of one valk under the hull of another if on different height stands?
A model can be under a vehicle. Vehicles don't create a column of un-occupiable space. You just can't overlap bases.

+1 -AC
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Old 30 Jun 2009, 12:14   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Valkyrie/Vendetta Questions.

How about this:
Considering that the flyer base is both smaller than the Valkyrie model, as well as the fact that it really disrupts many rules, what would your opinion be to just simply play without the base itself?

Break the one rule about required to use the base the model comes with, and instead, not break half the rule book whenever you try to do anything with the Valkyrie. Treat it like any other skimmer that has a small flying base so small that it has no visible effect on the board.
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Old 01 Jul 2009, 08:09   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Valkyrie/Vendetta Questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumishi
How about this:
Considering that the flyer base is both smaller than the Valkyrie model, as well as the fact that it really disrupts many rules, what would your opinion be to just simply play without the base itself?

Break the one rule about required to use the base the model comes with, and instead, not break half the rule book whenever you try to do anything with the Valkyrie. Treat it like any other skimmer that has a small flying base so small that it has no visible effect on the board.
Really no reason to do that - there are no special rules regarding the base, and it's already well covered under the Skimmer rules.

It's just a giant flying stand, and is always ignored except for assault.
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Old 09 Jul 2009, 13:34   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Valkyrie/Vendetta Questions.

I don't know about GCI but deployment by other means shouldn't be a problem. The fluff states troopers drop down via repelling lines in most circumstances. So how high is too high to rope down? Don't let a rules lawyer dicker around with that. Deploy as necessary.
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