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Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 00:12   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

Alright lads, here's my first attempt at writing a tactica, so please bear with me. So I was trying to work up some combos to make the rather overpriced special characters in the new IG Codex give me a run for the money and I figured out two things:

- Knight Commander Pask is overpriced (that many points and you don't even get a model with a profile?)

- The Leman Russ Punisher is overpriced (barely 24 inches range and BS3 means 10 hits - this is inferior to any other Leman Russ variant except for the one with the dual TL-autocannons)

But bringing these two units together would make for a tank that can dish out a lot of pain. Let me explain how:

Knight Commander pask makes all the guns of any Leman Russ have +1 strength when targeting tanks (in other words: you add +1 to the armor penetration roll). This means, that coupled with 3 Heavy Bolters that any sane player will take to boost his Punisher's firepower, you're looking at 29 S6 shots against tanks, of which due to BS3, 14.5 will hit.

Now Pask's second ability is to make all of these 29 beautiful shots have BS4 rather than BS3.Normally, this slight change of BS isn't very useful for the other Russ variants: it only means one less inch of scatter for all the blast markers and in the case of the Exterminator's dual autocannons, it wouldn't make much difference either because they're twin-linked anyway so you'll simply get a guarantee that you'll score 4 S7 hits on the enemy.

But on a Punisher, this makes a huge difference, as now on average, you're hitting with 15 S5 shots rather than with 10. That's a 50% increase in efficiency. Throw in the fact that now, instead of 4.5 Heavy Bolters hitting out of 9 shots, you're dealing 6 hits instead, and you've increased your total Punisher firepower output from 29 shots to 35.5, of which 17.75 will hit.

S5 means you'll wound Orks, Marines and Necrons on a 3+ (you shouldn't be taking a Punisher when facing MEQ armies anyway), and all the squishy Tau, (Dark) Eldar, Nids and fellow Guard on a 2+. And these armies usually field light vehicles (or battlesuits/killakanz etc.), so you have 18 S6 shots against them, giving you the power to penetrate a Rhino thrice.

Think that was all? Not quite. Pask's final ability grants you to re-roll wounds when facing monstrous creatures, so that huge amount of S5 shots has a good chance of wounding anything and everything upto toughness 8 (ranging from the weaker Carnifexs & Hive Tyrants to the tougher wraithlords and C'tan) and thus, while not necessarily being a monster-killer, your Punisher can still prove to be effective against most enemies with Pask commanding it.

Cheers,
-Silver
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 01:02   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

Some good points, and I admit, the more I look at this tank the more it seems to be designed specificly as a anti-light vehicle platform. Against troops, even with this I think it is still better to use the points you'd be spending on the knight commander and the tank on another 4+ squads of infantry, but against say, squadrons of landspeeders, it ahs a rather punishing effect.
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 01:22   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

True, you can always spam infantry, but I think this tank is suited as the alternative for people who dislike painting lots of models and a single tank is also easier to maneuver (after all, it can move and shoot, keeping the range, unlike guardsmen) and easier to hide behind cover than 20+ infantrymen. Lastly, its immunity to small-arms fire and the fact that only weapons of S8 (or S9 when targeting the front) and above can destroy it means it it will survive longer than guardsmen who will drop like flies to flamers or blast markers. And if that isn't enough to convince, the fact that it will never fail a morale testis something worth considering as well

Cheers,
-Silver
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 02:24   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

Punisher is certainly not for taking out light tanks. The ap '-' means that you get a -1 on your roll on the table to take out tanks, I believe. That means even on a pen you need a 6 to destroy the vehicle - your chances of taking it out are halved.

Against infantry it's still devastating though.
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 03:07   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

You're grossly underestimating Pask and the punisher is one of the worst places to put him. Pask works best in an exterminator or vanquisher. Exterminator with pask, a hull lascannon and sponson bolters is the perfect all purpose tank. Even with just a hull heavy bolter any large target he's pointed at will take serious damage. I've crippled carnifexes, killed flyrants from full wounds, and demolisherd any vehicles with AV12 and under in a single round of shooting with this tank, AND it's cheaper than you're idea. Infact, it is much better at killing light vehicles than the punisher with pask and cheaper to boot. Tossing him in a vanquisher with hull las is a nice plan too, almost assuring 2 penetrating hits against enemy armour and 2 automatic wounds on MCs.

Only the eradicator is a worse choice for pask as it's sole purpose is a light infantry killer where both his crack shot ability is wasted and his increased BS only marginally affects his accuracy. For extreme penetrating power one might consider Pask in a demolisher with multi-meltas and lascannon as well. That's 2 S9 melta weapons, a strength 10 direct fire weapon and an equivalent S11 ordinance blast weapon (Because crack shot doesn`t increase the actual strength, only the dice roll, so you get the dice roll plus 11 on top of the ordnance best of two rule). Against a Landraider that's close 100% chance of a penetrating hit not even counting the 3 direct firing weapons at high BS. This tank is admittedly extremely expensive, but against an army heavy on AV14, it's a very good investment.


EDIT: I decided to do the math, and I'm going to have to retract a bit on the punisher being awful in this case although I'm not keen on the cost you have to pay for the marginal output increase. The punisher does really outperform the exterminator against MCs, but against tanks it's only marginally more powerful at AV10 and AV11. In the overall effectiveness part on the punisher I applied a 5/6 multiplier to all this damaging hits from the punisher cannon to account for its -1 penalty to damage rolls. If this is bad math, someone call me on it, I just wanted a way to lump all it's hits together to get a more comparable number.

Punsisher:

AV10 = 1 glancing hit, 2 penetrating hits, 4.44 penetrating hits at -1, 2.22 glancing hits at -1 (overall effectiveness - 5.7 penetrating hits, 2.85 glancing hits)

AV11 = 1 glanceing hit, 1 penetrating hits 2.22 glancing hits at -1, 2.22 penetrating hits at -1 (overall effectiveness - 2.85 glancing hits, 2.85 penetrating hits)

AV12 = 1 glancing hits, 2.22 glancing hits at -1 (overall effectiveness - 2.85 glancing hits)

AV13 = no effect

AV14 = no effect

T6 MC = 10.73 saves to be made

Exterminator:

AV10 = 1.59 glancing hits, 4.37 penetrating hits

AV11 = 1.59 glancing hits, 2.78 penetrating hits

AV12 = 1.59 glancing hits, 1.18 penetrating hits

AV13 = 0.59 glancing hits, 0.59 penetrating hits

AV14 = 0.59 glancing hits

T6 MC = 6.857 saves to be made
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 05:17   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

Yes, it might be an option for those not liking ahving masses of troops, but if that is the case why go with guard in the first place?

It looks like yes, the Exterminator is justa s well for light vehilces which really makes the Punisher an odd duck of a tank. Or am i wrong? Bit tired right now....
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 11:47   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritbw
Yes, it might be an option for those not liking ahving masses of troops, but if that is the case why go with guard in the first place?

It looks like yes, the Exterminator is justa s well for light vehilces which really makes the Punisher an odd duck of a tank. Or am i wrong? Bit tired right now....
I don't like setting up masses and masses of troop and I love guard.... but I love masses and masses of tanks.... 4 chimera's and 3 artillery in 1500

oh and the punisher is for gattling freak out there who see an A-10 and start drooling. Like me. but I won't be using it as the manticore is the love of my life.
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 15:33   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

The Punisher looks like a pretty lackluster Leman Russ variant. It can barely scratch light vehicles, has a short range that exposes it to assault/melta weapons, and is little threat against power armoured troops. It is alright against lightly armoured hordes in the open, but IG has better options for that in my opinion, such as valkyries, griffons, colossi, medusae, and hellhounds.
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 15:47   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

of course you can also look at it like this: It can multitask when given pask. it can take on MC's light armor, infantry, even terminators to some degree. Now it may not be good for all of these but it can be used to fill these roles. it's a jack of all trades, not a very good one but it CAN perform all these roles.
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Old 05 Jun 2009, 16:08   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tactica: Good Use for Leman Russ Punisher

A real multi-tasker would be Pask in an Executioner with plasma cannon sponsons.
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