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Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested
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Old 28 May 2009, 00:57   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ota, Gunma Prefecture, Japan
Posts: 3,764
Default Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

I own a large amount of Imperial Guard miniatures, from many different regiments. Some of them are assembled, some are painted, and most are neither :-[. For a long time now I've had thoughts of separating my models into proper themed armies; with the publication of the latest edition of the Imperial Guard codex I figured this would be a fantastic time to do so.

I'd like my armies to play significantly differently to each other; in the last edition I was planning to do this via doctrines, different methods of bolstering Leadership, and by different unit choices. Now, I've only really got different unit choices to go on, and this is where I'm looking for help.

I intend to make each army as good as possible whilst sticking to the intent of the army background. For example, despite the fact that Master of the Fleet grants an awesome ability to hinder your opponent, if it doesn't fit the army type then he won't be going in (unless I can justify it with a good 'counts as' reason).

These are the models I currently own;

Praetorians
A huge fan of these models, these are quite possibly the army I own the most models for. These guys are going to be used for a SIGAFH army.

Catachans
Bought loads of these in plastic when they first came out, though I've yet to purchase any of the newer models (like Heavy Weapon squads and the Command squad box). These will be Deathworld Veterans as I love the Catachan background.

Valhallans
My first Imperial Guard models were Valhallans, bought back when they were first released in 2nd Edition. I bought them simply because I loved the look of the Mortar that came in the box set. I'm torn on these guys, because I loved the background on them, but not too fond of their tactics in this and the last codex (where they use loads of Conscripts to overwhelm the enemy) simply because I don't have enough Valhallan models to do loads of Conscripts. I had intended to use these guys as Cityfighters, but the reintroduction of Colonel Chenkov (the model of whom I've owned ever since he was released) means that I've got a hankering to do these as proper Valhallans once more (even if it means buying loads more models).

Cadians
I own a moderate amount of Cadian models (two old Battleforces plus a box or two more), but I have no idea what to do with them at all. Thoughts for these guys have included as a Penal Legion (including being used as such as Inducted Imperial Guard in a Witch Hunters army-counts-as Adeptus Arbites army), renegades a la the Forgeworld renegades (including the possibility of buying the Forgeworld upgrade kits), an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor's private army (Daemonhunter Inducted Imperial Guard), and Afriel Strain (as introduced via Doctrines in White Dwarf).


These are my initial lists of units to have in the relevant armies:

[table][tr][td]Unit[/td][td]Praetorian SIGAFH[/td][td]Catachan DWVs[/td][td]Cityfighting (Valhallans)[/td][td](Traditional) Valhallans[/td][td]Penal Legion[/td][td]Afriel Strain[/td][td]Renegades[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Company Command Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes (representing Custodians)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Astropath[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for a 'Bush Tracker' equivalent)[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Master of Ordnance[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]No[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Officer of the Fleet[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly ('counts as' for a 'Booby Trap' specialist)[/td][td]No[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly ('counts as' for a 'Sabotage' expert)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bodyguard[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for 'Penal Legionnaire Bullet Shields&#39[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for 'hostage/captive bullet shields&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Lord Castellan Creed[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Colour Sergeant Kell[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (hell yes!)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Nork Deddog[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Lord Commissar[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No (hell no!)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for a 'super soldier&#39[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for a 'Chaos Champion&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Commissar Yarrick[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Primaris Psyker[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]No[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ministorum Priest[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for 'apostate preachers'[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Techpriest Enginseer[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ogryn Squad[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'Ogryn Berserkers&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ratling Squad[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Psyker Battle Squad[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Storm Trooper Squad[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'Custodians&#39[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' 'super soldiers&#39[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'disciples of Xaphan' equivalent)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Guardsman Marbo[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (hell yes!)[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' sapper)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' sapper)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Platoon Command Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes (no Commissars)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Commander Chenkov[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Captain Al'rahem[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Infantry Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Heavy Weapon Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Special Weapon Squad[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Conscripts[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for 'beast herd&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Veteran Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes (all Troops choices made up of this unit entry)[/td][td]Probably[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gunnery Sergeant Harker[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (hell yes!)[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sergeant Bastonne[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Penal Legion Squad[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes (all Troops choices made up of this unit entry, excepting perhaps the odd Veteran squad))[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for 'suicide squad' perhaps?)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Scout Sentinel Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Armoured Sentinel Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rough Rider Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as 'custodians&#39[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mogul Kamir[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (if Rough Riders are actually taken for Renegades)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hellhound[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Devil Dog[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bane Wolf[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Valkyrie[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Vendetta[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Exterminator[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Vanquisher[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Eradicator[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Demolisher[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]YES![/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Punisher[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Executioner[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Knight Commander Pask[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (allows 0-1 Leman Russ, any type)[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hydra Flak Tank[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Basilisk[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Medusa[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Colossus[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Griffon[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Manticore[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deathstrike Missile Launcher[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr][/table]


I've tried to theme these lists, so my Praetorians are all shooty (and their tanks are only the ones that shoot stupidly long ranges), the Catachans should hopefully be masters of sneaking around and booby trapping things, the Cityfighters should work well close up (and should work well in games of Cityfight/Cities of Death), the traditional Valhallans ought to be as close to their depiction in the last edition of the Codex, the Penal Legion is mostly backed up by support to kill the Legionairres if they run away (WWI Russian strategy of keeping the biggest guns behind the unwilling troops, I believe), the Afriels should all be BS4, psychic or abhuman and don't use any tanks, and the Renegades ought to be a fairly good representation of the Forge World list.

The big question is, though, have I gone wrong anywhere here? Is there anything I've put on these lists that shouldn't be there according to theme? Is there anything I've left off?

Can you help me out?

[hr]

Oh, and as an aside, I have a very small amount of (metal) Cadians (1 squad), Tallarns (1 squad) and Mordians (1 squad + 1 Platoon Command Squad). Any suggestions as to what to do with these would be greatly appreciated
__________________
[table][tr][td]Regards,
MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
[hr]
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Old 28 May 2009, 03:23   #2 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

[table][tr][td]Unit[/td][td]Praetorian SIGAFH[/td][td]Catachan DWVs[/td][td]Cityfighting (Valhallans)[/td][td](Traditional) Valhallans[/td][td]Penal Legion[/td][td]Afriel Strain[/td][td]Renegades[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Company Command Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes (representing Custodians)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Astropath[/td][td]Posssibly[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for a 'Bush Tracker' equivalent)[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]No[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Master of Ordnance[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Officer of the Fleet[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly ('counts as' for a 'Booby Trap' specialist)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Possibly ('counts as' for a 'Sabotage' expert)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bodyguard[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for 'Penal Legionnaire Bullet Shields&#39[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for 'hostage/captive bullet shields&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Lord Castellan Creed[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Colour Sergeant Kell[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (hell yes!)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Nork Deddog[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Lord Commissar[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No (hell no!)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for a 'super soldier&#39[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for a 'Chaos Champion&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Commissar Yarrick[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Primaris Psyker[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]No[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ministorum Priest[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' for 'apostate preachers'[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Techpriest Enginseer[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ogryn Squad[/td][td]Possibly[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'Ogryn Berserkers&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ratling Squad[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Psyker Battle Squad[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Storm Trooper Squad[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Maybe[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'Custodians&#39[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'super soldiers&#39[/td][td]Yes ('counts as' 'disciples of Xaphan' equivalent)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Guardsman Marbo[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (hell yes!)[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' sapper)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' sapper)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Platoon Command Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes (no Commissars)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Commander Chenkov[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Captain Al'rahem[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Infantry Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Heavy Weapon Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Probably[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Special Weapon Squad[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Yes (Demo Packs especially)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Conscripts[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for 'beast herd&#39[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Veteran Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes (all Troops choices made up of this unit entry)[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gunnery Sergeant Harker[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (hell yes!)[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sergeant Bastonne[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Penal Legion Squad[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Unlikely[/td][td]Yes (all Troops choices made up of this unit entry, excepting perhaps the odd Veteran squad))[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps ('counts as' for 'suicide squad' perhaps?)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Scout Sentinel Squad[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Armoured Sentinel Squad[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rough Rider Squad[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps (counts as 'custodians&#39[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mogul Kamir[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes (if Rough Riders are actually taken for Renegades)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hellhound[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Devil Dog[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bane Wolf[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Valkyrie[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Vendetta[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Exterminator[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Vanquisher[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Eradicator[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Demolisher[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Punisher[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leman Russ Executioner[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Knight Commander Pask[/td][td]Yes (counts as)[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes (allows 0-1 Leman Russ, any type)[/td][td]No[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Hydra Flak Tank[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][td]No[/td][td]No[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Basilisk[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Medusa[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Colossus[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Griffon[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Manticore[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Deathstrike Missile Launcher[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]No[/td][td]Yes[/td][td]Perhaps[/td][/tr][/table]
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Old 28 May 2009, 13:33   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

Okay, lets go through your suggestions one army at a time. Well, the bits that I want to comment on anyway.

Praetorian SIGAFH

Astropath (Unlikely -> Possibly); not a problem, but I just don't see this style of army using reserves that often.

Colour Sergeant Kell counts as (Yes -> No); any particular reason for this change? I liked the thought of the Praetorians getting yelled at by their Officers and following their Orders more efficiently as a result.

Ogryn Squad (Unlikely -> Possibly); I made these unlikely as I figured that Ogryns have very little use in a pure SIGAFH type army.

Scout Sentinel/Armoured Sentinel (Yes -> Perhaps); any particular reason for this change?


Catachan Deathworld Veterans

Master of Ordnance (No -> Possibly); the way I figure the way Catachans operate is that they're more independent than most other Guard regiments are. Also, my Catachan Company Command Squads will likely be close range/close combat based so a MoO will likely never get to use his ability.

Nork Deddog (No -> Yes); I put Nork with the Praetorians mainly because the thought of a Ogryn bodyguarding Michael Caine (in Zulu) was damned funny! In retrospect, and reading the old 3rd Edition Catachan Codex, allowing Catachans access to a Nork equivalent would be completely in character.

Ministorum Priest (Yes -> No); I have to say that I am very torn on this. On the one hand I can see Ministorum Priests working very well in a Catachan army, but on the other hand, their background supports them not liking outsides (particularly Commissars). The old 'Oops, Sorry Sir' rule suggested that the main reason this happened was because they 'resent strangers telling them what to do or threatening their friends'; would this happen with a Ministorum Priest? Would the Catachans have issues with preachers exhorting them to greater deeds in the eyes of the Emperor? I'm having a great deal of trouble distinguishing my desire to have them for their battlefield prowess from my desire to have an army according to the background.

Ogryn Squad (Perhaps -> Yes); likewise, it fits perfectly.

Armoured Sentinel Squad (No -> Yes); In retrospect, Armorued Sentinels would provide the Catachans with a degree of mobile Heavy Weapons fire that their lack of tank usage would bely.

Mogul Kamir (No -> Perhaps); I'm not a huge fan of his Rage special rule. Whilst I feel it fits in perfectly, thematically, with Renegades, I don't think it works well for Catachans, who would likely use Rough Riders as swift scouts (in the background rather than on the tabletop).

Devil Dog, Bane Wolf (No -> Yes); I chose not to include these variants as I felt the primary use of a Hellhound would be to burn the dense vegetation, something which the other two variants wouldn't do too well.

Leman Russ Vanquisher, Demolisher, Executioner (No -> Yes); my interpretation of Catachans is that they'll not use too much armoured support. The Leman Russ made sense, since it's the ubiquitous battle tank of the Guard. Likewise, the Exterminator and Punisher make sense since they'll throw out loads of fire at anything they can see. But these other guys seem too specialised to work well in a jungle environment.

Leman Russ Eradicator (No -> Yes); in retrospect, this would work very well. However, I initially said 'No' to this choice as a way of distinguishing Jungle Fighters from Cityfighters.

Knight Commander Pask (No -> Yes); in keeping with my concept of little armoured support, the idea of a tank ace like this doesn't go too well.

Basilisk, Griffon, Deathstrike Missile Launcher (Perhaps/Yes/Yes -> No); the main idea that the old 3rd edition Catachan Codex tried to get across was the indirect firing weapons were the heaviest weapons that Catachans generally took. Ergo, I consider the Griffon to be a tank they'd use frequently, with the Basilisk as a possibility. I can't recall why I allowed them the DML though...


Cityfighters

Master of Ordnance (No -> Yes); whilst I'd initially discounted this, this would make a good choice to represent additional fire support being given from a distance.

Lord Castellan Creed counts as (Yes -> No); the main reason I picked this was for his 'For the Honour of Cadia!' Order as it seemed like a good representation of my concept of Cityfighters (who would have had the equivalent of Chem-Inhalers in the last Codex to represent their steadfastness).

Nork Deddog (No -> Yes); I just don't see this working too well. Ogryns as shock troops works well, but my intention for the Company Command Squad will have them holding back a bit.

Ministorum Priest (Perhaps -> Yes); any particular reason for this change? I like it, but I'm just curious as to the reasoning.

Command Chenkov, Conscripts (Perhaps -> Yes); the same issue I have with the Traditional Valhallan list rears its head here in that I just don't have the models to do Conscripts without spending silly amounts of money. Though, the concept of being able to just throw squad after squad into a meat grinder does sound like a fun idea.

Armoured Sentinel Squad (Yes -> Perhaps); I figured that Cityfighters would rely on foot troopers to scout and let the armoured walkers provide mobile firepower that can go through buildings.

Devil Dog (No -> Yes); I don't feel that this vehicle would work well in a city (too much cover to hide behind). I could be wrong though.

Leman Russ, Vanquisher, Executioner (No -> Yes); again, these all work better on the open fields of warfare and not in cities. The other Leman Russ variants do.

Knight Commander Pask (No -> Yes); perhaps I can do this. I just don't want him to be an option for every Guard army I have.

Hydra Flak Tank (No -> Perhaps); not so sure of this. If we were talking about a regular Forgeworld Hydra then I'd agree, but with the changes to it as made in the new Codex I'm not so sure.


Valhallans

First, a quick word on these guys. The old Codex implied heavily that they were an infantry heavy army (with their Doctrine choices at least) which is the theme I tried to go for here.


Master of Ordnance (Possibly -> Yes); with thoughts of an infantry heavy force in mind, long range artillery shelling doesn't really work too well.

Bodyguard (No -> Yes); actually, I agree with this.

Storm Troopers (No -> Maybe); not allowed under old Codex so I didn't include them this time around.

Special Weapons Squad (No -> Perhaps); hmm... could be a possibility. Again, I discounted them due to the old Codex.

Scout Sentinels/Armoured Sentinels (Yes -> Perhaps); I included both of these as I reckoned that they'd be quite useful on the icy tundra that Valhallans call home.

Bane Wolf (No -> Yes); I figured that Valhallans would value the ability to melt through ice and snow, using either flames (Hellhound) or melta weapons (Devil Dog), far more than using chemical weapons.

Vehicles; as stated earlier, I see Valhallans as being a very lightly armoured force, and the vehicles allowed were chosen to support this.


Penal Legion

Nork Deddog (No -> Yes); any particular reasons why?

Commissar Yarrick (Unlikely -> Yes); again, why?

Non Penal Legion Troops choices; the fact that I've been given the perfect Troops choice for my Penal Legion means that there's pretty much no chance of me taking non-PL Troops choices.

Vehicles; I picked vehicles that would be driven by Custodians, and would be turned on the Penal Legionnaires if they fled. Hence things like a Bane Wolf and Leman Russ Punisher.


Afriel Strain

The idea of this army is that it's an army filled with elites. Hence, everyone should have BS 4 or greater or have something special about them, like good stats elsewhere or psychic ability. Since Afriels no longer get ATSKNF, this seems to be the only way to make it up.

Creed, Kell, Straken, Deddog, Marbo; I can understand having Creed as a tactical genius that the Afriel program was supposed to breed, but why are the others included?

Ratlings, Psyker Battle Squads; supposed to represent Afriels with slightly different traits.

Infantry Platoons; the contents of these do not fit with my concept of being 'elite' Guard.

Sentinels and Tanks; none of these have BS 4, the defining trait of the Afriels, excluding a single LR with Pask.


Renegades

No issues with any suggestions here.
__________________
[table][tr][td]Regards,
MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
[hr]
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Old 28 May 2009, 14:12   #4 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

Quote:
Praetorian SIGAFH

Astropath (Unlikely -> Possibly); not a problem, but I just don't see this style of army using reserves that often.

Colour Sergeant Kell counts as (Yes -> No); any particular reason for this change? I liked the thought of the Praetorians getting yelled at by their Officers and following their Orders more efficiently as a result.

Ogryn Squad (Unlikely -> Possibly); I made these unlikely as I figured that Ogryns have very little use in a pure SIGAFH type army.

Scout Sentinel/Armoured Sentinel (Yes -> Perhaps); any particular reason for this change?
Kell; I can't remember...I think it's more of a Perhaps. Ogryn Squads can be very shooty up close. Don't get me wrong but I feel despite the rain of firepower, some will get close enough. And they're a great counterattack unit. I feel Sentinels are only for those Recon Regiments.

Quote:
Catachan Deathworld Veterans

Master of Ordnance (No -> Possibly); the way I figure the way Catachans operate is that they're more independent than most other Guard regiments are. Also, my Catachan Company Command Squads will likely be close range/close combat based so a MoO will likely never get to use his ability.

Nork Deddog (No -> Yes); I put Nork with the Praetorians mainly because the thought of a Ogryn bodyguarding Michael Caine (in Zulu) was damned funny! In retrospect, and reading the old 3rd Edition Catachan Codex, allowing Catachans access to a Nork equivalent would be completely in character.

Ministorum Priest (Yes -> No); I have to say that I am very torn on this. On the one hand I can see Ministorum Priests working very well in a Catachan army, but on the other hand, their background supports them not liking outsides (particularly Commissars). The old 'Oops, Sorry Sir' rule suggested that the main reason this happened was because they 'resent strangers telling them what to do or threatening their friends'; would this happen with a Ministorum Priest? Would the Catachans have issues with preachers exhorting them to greater deeds in the eyes of the Emperor? I'm having a great deal of trouble distinguishing my desire to have them for their battlefield prowess from my desire to have an army according to the background.

Ogryn Squad (Perhaps -> Yes); likewise, it fits perfectly.

Armoured Sentinel Squad (No -> Yes); In retrospect, Armorued Sentinels would provide the Catachans with a degree of mobile Heavy Weapons fire that their lack of tank usage would bely.

Mogul Kamir (No -> Perhaps); I'm not a huge fan of his Rage special rule. Whilst I feel it fits in perfectly, thematically, with Renegades, I don't think it works well for Catachans, who would likely use Rough Riders as swift scouts (in the background rather than on the tabletop).

Devil Dog, Bane Wolf (No -> Yes); I chose not to include these variants as I felt the primary use of a Hellhound would be to burn the dense vegetation, something which the other two variants wouldn't do too well.

Leman Russ Vanquisher, Demolisher, Executioner (No -> Yes); my interpretation of Catachans is that they'll not use too much armoured support. The Leman Russ made sense, since it's the ubiquitous battle tank of the Guard. Likewise, the Exterminator and Punisher make sense since they'll throw out loads of fire at anything they can see. But these other guys seem too specialised to work well in a jungle environment.

Leman Russ Eradicator (No -> Yes); in retrospect, this would work very well. However, I initially said 'No' to this choice as a way of distinguishing Jungle Fighters from Cityfighters.

Knight Commander Pask (No -> Yes); in keeping with my concept of little armoured support, the idea of a tank ace like this doesn't go too well.

Basilisk, Griffon, Deathstrike Missile Launcher (Perhaps/Yes/Yes -> No); the main idea that the old 3rd edition Catachan Codex tried to get across was the indirect firing weapons were the heaviest weapons that Catachans generally took. Ergo, I consider the Griffon to be a tank they'd use frequently, with the Basilisk as a possibility. I can't recall why I allowed them the DML though...
Master Ordnance + Ordnance Battery; you just answered your own question. Anyway, I think they can have Artillery but they wouldn't rely on it too much; so it's a Possibly. Same go with Leman Russes of all types. Priests; yeah as if they want a screamer giving away their position and reading and reciting litany after litany. Most probably they will end up in an 'accident'. Devildog; fair enough. Banewolf; they want something to kill the Tyranids.

To be continued...
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Old 29 May 2009, 00:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Posts: 3,764
Default Re: Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

By the way, thanks for taking the time to sit through all this lot and read it and give me feedback on it
__________________
[table][tr][td]Regards,
MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
[hr]
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Old 29 May 2009, 16:45   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

The Afriels are clones, there's really no reason they wouldn't have anything, the only slight pause would be Straken and Yarrick, but its possible the Genitors responsible for them decided to add the bionics or other tinkering EG Yarrick could be an Afriel with "upgrades" based on necron tech(using how it functions as an inspiration rather than actually giving him necron bits), ogryns etc could be them taking the experiment a stage further.
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Old 29 May 2009, 17:09   #7 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Separating and distinguishing my armies; help requested

Quote:
Cityfighters

Master of Ordnance (No -> Yes); whilst I'd initially discounted this, this would make a good choice to represent additional fire support being given from a distance.

Lord Castellan Creed counts as (Yes -> No); the main reason I picked this was for his 'For the Honour of Cadia!' Order as it seemed like a good representation of my concept of Cityfighters (who would have had the equivalent of Chem-Inhalers in the last Codex to represent their steadfastness).

Nork Deddog (No -> Yes); I just don't see this working too well. Ogryns as shock troops works well, but my intention for the Company Command Squad will have them holding back a bit.

Ministorum Priest (Perhaps -> Yes); any particular reason for this change? I like it, but I'm just curious as to the reasoning.

Command Chenkov, Conscripts (Perhaps -> Yes); the same issue I have with the Traditional Valhallan list rears its head here in that I just don't have the models to do Conscripts without spending silly amounts of money. Though, the concept of being able to just throw squad after squad into a meat grinder does sound like a fun idea.

Armoured Sentinel Squad (Yes -> Perhaps); I figured that Cityfighters would rely on foot troopers to scout and let the armoured walkers provide mobile firepower that can go through buildings.

Devil Dog (No -> Yes); I don't feel that this vehicle would work well in a city (too much cover to hide behind). I could be wrong though.

Leman Russ, Vanquisher, Executioner (No -> Yes); again, these all work better on the open fields of warfare and not in cities. The other Leman Russ variants do.

Knight Commander Pask (No -> Yes); perhaps I can do this. I just don't want him to be an option for every Guard army I have.

Hydra Flak Tank (No -> Perhaps); not so sure of this. If we were talking about a regular Forgeworld Hydra then I'd agree, but with the changes to it as made in the new Codex I'm not so sure.
Castellan; I'm very iffy about him and most Special Characters to be honest. But how many Cityfighters actually use Chem-Inhalers? Cadians don't use them. Steel Legion don't.

Priest; Oops, should have been Perhaps.

Chenkov; Whether or not you have the models, I don't take it into account. Either you go with it or don't.

Devil Dog; Melt the bunkers or the Pla-Steel walls.

Vanquisher/Executioner; Fair point but I'm not discounting it. They may need to take out a certain bunker or tank.

Hydra Flak; shoot down enemy Gunships i.e. Falcons, Valkyries etc. Keep the main Infantry advance from being pinned down by enemy Gunship support.

Quote:
Valhallans

First, a quick word on these guys. The old Codex implied heavily that they were an infantry heavy army (with their Doctrine choices at least) which is the theme I tried to go for here.


Master of Ordnance (Possibly -> Yes); with thoughts of an infantry heavy force in mind, long range artillery shelling doesn't really work too well.

Bodyguard (No -> Yes); actually, I agree with this.

Storm Troopers (No -> Maybe); not allowed under old Codex so I didn't include them this time around.

Special Weapons Squad (No -> Perhaps); hmm... could be a possibility. Again, I discounted them due to the old Codex.

Scout Sentinels/Armoured Sentinels (Yes -> Perhaps); I included both of these as I reckoned that they'd be quite useful on the icy tundra that Valhallans call home.

Bane Wolf (No -> Yes); I figured that Valhallans would value the ability to melt through ice and snow, using either flames (Hellhound) or melta weapons (Devil Dog), far more than using chemical weapons.

Vehicles; as stated earlier, I see Valhallans as being a very lightly armoured force, and the vehicles allowed were chosen to support this.
It is my understanding that Valhallans will pound an enemy position with heavy artillery fire before sending their endless infantry waves.

Special Weapons Squad; Demolition Teams.


Quote:
Penal Legion

Nork Deddog (No -> Yes); any particular reasons why?

Commissar Yarrick (Unlikely -> Yes); again, why?

Non Penal Legion Troops choices; the fact that I've been given the perfect Troops choice for my Penal Legion means that there's pretty much no chance of me taking non-PL Troops choices.

Vehicles; I picked vehicles that would be driven by Custodians, and would be turned on the Penal Legionnaires if they fled. Hence things like a Bane Wolf and Leman Russ Punisher.
Nork Dedogg and Yarrick; Typo @_@"

Vehicles; Fair point.

Quote:
Afriel Strain

The idea of this army is that it's an army filled with elites. Hence, everyone should have BS 4 or greater or have something special about them, like good stats elsewhere or psychic ability. Since Afriels no longer get ATSKNF, this seems to be the only way to make it up.

Creed, Kell, Straken, Deddog, Marbo; I can understand having Creed as a tactical genius that the Afriel program was supposed to breed, but why are the others included?

Ratlings, Psyker Battle Squads; supposed to represent Afriels with slightly different traits.

Infantry Platoons; the contents of these do not fit with my concept of being 'elite' Guard.

Sentinels and Tanks; none of these have BS 4, the defining trait of the Afriels, excluding a single LR with Pask.
From my understanding, Afriels are suppose to be from the best thus Special Characters. And I understand you want them at least at BS4 which is a fair point but eventually you're going to need those vehicles whether you like it or not. Or at least take vehicles with template weapons so the BS doesn't quite influence their aim.

Also, I understand Afriels are suppose to do be Super Soldiers (excluding Space Marines) so why do I want to taint them with Abhuman and Mutant DNA?
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