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Ogryns - are they worth it?
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Old 25 May 2009, 16:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Ogryns - are they worth it?

Alright I'm planning on including 2 Ogryns led by a Bonehead inside a Chimera with Smokelaunchers and two Heavy Bolters in a 1000 points Guard list that is made up of a Leman Russ Eradicator with Plasma Cannon side sponsons, a regular Valkyrie inside which a special weapons squad with 1 melta, 1 plasma gun and 1 demo charge is riding in as well as 1 veterans squad, 2 infantry squads, 1 platoon command squad and 1 company command squad w. master of ordinance all armed with grenade launchers + mortars, 3 Ratlng snipers and 2 Lascannon Sentinels.

Originally my list had also a Chimera with dual HBs and a minimum Psyker battle squad, so I thought replacing them and one sentinel to make room for Ogryns would be a good idea. The Big boys would then be transported in the Chimera towards the enemy OR would be good to keep away nasty infiltrators from my fire base.

Sure the first thing that's gonna bother you is the Ogryns' 5+ armor, 12'' range and initiative 3, suggesting that they are never worth their points. But upon closer inspection you'll find out that having a S5 Assault 3 gun as well as 3 wounds and 3 S5 attacks (4 in the case of the bonehead) coupled with toughness 5 is invaluable. I'm sure these guys can bring down a 10 man Space Marines squad, provided they get to shoot and furious charge without allowing the Marines to shoot back. This can be done in 3 turns:

Your Ogryn Chimera starts 24,1" from the enemy target squad (preferably some heavy weapons team that is not very mobile).
Turn 1: Chimera moves 6'' and fires 1 Heavy Bolter
Turn 2: Chimera moves 12'' and activates smokelaunchers
Turn 3: Ogryns disembark, move 6'', shoot 12'' and charge 6'' into the enemy. Chimera fires both Heavy Bolters.

So are the 3 of them worth the rather costly points or is the 4 psyker + 1 sentinel combo better?

With their amount of attacks, Ogryns also make for good anti-tank units in close combat. I really like the new Ogryn models!

Cheers,
-Silver

P.S: Is it legal to use Imperial Sniper models to represent Ratlings. After all, both have the same guns and the Imperial snipers are better looking...
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Old 25 May 2009, 17:32   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
P.S: Is it legal to use Imperial Sniper models to represent Ratlings. After all, both have the same guns and the Imperial snipers are better looking...
I never used ratlings. I simply replace them with imperial snipers for counts-as. No one, friend or store opponent, as had a problem with it. I never tried to use them in a GW tournaments so that i'm not sure.

As for the Ogryns, i sometimes use a small squad of them (5 or 6) in a chimera to act as a counter-charge unit with a pack of 10 Rough Raiders. The Rough Raiders really help the Ogryns who forgot their power claws/weapons at home. In a 1500pts game its quite effective. For smaller games, i have difficulty using about 15-25% of points on one counter-charge unit.

You seems to be wanting to use them in a more aggressive way. It could actually be done and deserves to be tried out. I think they will be more effective then a minimum Psyker squad and more importantly, they will last alot longer than those 5little men wearing paper armor.

Finally, you said you liked the models. So go ahead and have fun painting them !
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Old 25 May 2009, 17:50   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

Ogryn are totaly worth their points. The more the better acctually. Those high thoughness guys are just a living pain to take down. Sure they have a crappy armour, but with todays terrain rules they can claim cover pretty easy. Or in your case, they will be inside a chimera.


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Old 25 May 2009, 22:47   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

side note: How can you not like the new ratlings! :P
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Old 26 May 2009, 02:03   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

Ogryns are a great investment. Are they 'spensive? Sure. But they're incredibly tough, with insane guns and enormous combat potential. On top of that, they're stubborn! They're the Wraithguard of the Imperial Guard!
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Old 26 May 2009, 02:59   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaffl
They're the Wraithguard of the Imperial Guard!
Great comparison! If you are running a whole shwack of infantry models, then some Ogryns are almost a must have to back them up in both shooting and counter-charging if infantry squads gets charged. I would take some in my drop troop list if they could be carried by Valkyries.
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Old 26 May 2009, 05:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

Cant Ogryns embark on a valkyrie if they have an IC with them?
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Old 26 May 2009, 05:33   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 33rd Sirican Redbacks
Cant Ogryns embark on a valkyrie if they have an IC with them?
Valkyries and Vendettas can't carry Ogryns except for Nokk Dedogg :P
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Old 26 May 2009, 05:59   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

That's ok, Nork is the only Ogryn I own.
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Old 26 May 2009, 11:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Ogryns - are they worth it?

There was a similar discussion going on at Dakkadakka (not a member there) where the majority totally trashed the Ogryns with various arguments. Here's some of them, to which I have made my statement:

Somebody made the comparison of the ridiculousness of an Orgryn's cost by comparing him to the ability of fielding a Grey Knight Terminator (or regular terminator with lightning claws for the same price).

In range, the terminator is better (1 less strength and 1 less shot, but twice the range and better AP)
In close combat the terminator is better (2-3 attacks either S6 I4 nemesis force weapon or S4 lightning claw or S8 powerfist compared to 3 S5 attacks at initiative 2 which do not ignore armor)
In statline the terminator is better (2+ armor and 5+ invulnerable compared to 5+ armor. Much better initiative - and initiative can mean win or loss in close combat)


...however what I think is relevant is that a single lucky plasma shot can kill a terminator. But you cannot kill an Ogryn with luck - you'll either need an insane amount of firepower or a S10 shot. S10 shots are usually one-shot anti-tank hits (you're tanks are safe if your enemy is using these against your Ogryns) with the exception of the Demolisher Cannon - the Dem cannon is the only thing ogryns have to fear. But that's where the Chimera comes into play

Another guy compared a squad of Ogryns with a huge squad of either Penal Legionnaires or Guardsmen (not sure) and said that the latter two are much more worth their points. But three things bug me here:

1) Template weapons - be it multiple flamers or pie plates, Guardsmen will drop en masse if these are used. Ogryns don't.
2) Mobility - fielding so many troops is going to occupy a lot of table space and getting them all in cover won't be possible. With T3, they'll drop like flies to the most common weapons
3) Painting some Ogryn is nicer than having to wade through the process of 30 unpainted guardsmen which will take weeks.
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