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Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?
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Old 20 May 2009, 17:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

Figuring out the best way to include nine lascannons in my army, I re-read the Creed/Kell entry.

(paraphrasing) If Kell is included in a squad, you go off his squads leadership when giving orders. Could this be correct? (LD 10 For orders) for every unit within 24 inches?

Granted, Kell and Creed combo is ridiculously expensive, but taking that into account, you could twin link four HWS a turn with roughly a 85% chance of success. Twelve twin linked lascannons?

Not to mention giving orders to a squad that actually can take a vox.

Am I reading this correctly?

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Old 20 May 2009, 17:51   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

yup you're reading it right, I actually toyed with the possibility myself, although I quickly came to the realisation, that by having four squads of lascannons, you have enough str 9 shots to miss a few times, and I found that it was infinitely more useful to spam orders to my squads. I find that whilst the Creed/Kell combo is very effective, and by most armies standards not terribly expensive, this is the IG, and it is terribly expensive, and whilst I am guilty of repeatedly using creed in my first few 5th edition games the inclusion of kell is just to much of a point sink for my liking, although in a larger, i.e post 2000 point game I would definitely not leave home with out him.
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Old 20 May 2009, 18:06   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

I'm still on the fence myself,

I'm not wild about special characters (although, every marine player in my group uses one) and it is A LOT of points to tie up on an HQ.

But, for a non-mechanized list, I may have to concede that this is the tier one tactic.

Combined with the correct counter charge units, This may be the route I go.

My group (90% marine equivalents) are masters of vindicator/land raider spam. This combo might make them rethink their lists.
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Old 20 May 2009, 18:21   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krumpa
I'm still on the fence myself,

I'm not wild about special characters (although, every marine player in my group uses one) and it is A LOT of points to tie up on an HQ.

But, for a non-mechanized list, I may have to concede that this is the tier one tactic.

Combined with the correct counter charge units, This may be the route I go.

My group (90% marine equivalents) are masters of vindicator/land raider spam. This combo might make them rethink their lists.
Well it all comes down to what you want to play really. If it suits your needs and you feel comfortable with it, go for it.
Is it good, yes it is, is it worth it, well as you say its pretty expensive. Count on it for a while. What will you get for the points spent on Krell. ANother heavy weapon team perhaps? Would that in the end balance things up?
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Old 21 May 2009, 05:37   #5 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

You may as well get a normal Company Command Squad and a Lord Comissar. Same effect but cheaper.
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Old 21 May 2009, 11:04   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
You may as well get a normal Company Command Squad and a Lord Comissar. Same effect but cheaper.
Actually no,

Creed saving graces are:

1. Twenty four inch command bubble vs. twelve
2. Four commands a round vs. two
3. Outflank one unit vs. none
4. Furious charge vs. none

Now, the lord commissar does give a 6 inch leadership 10/ and stubborn to any unit he joins. Not bad.

But, Creed/Kell gives Leadership 10 for orders twenty four inches away, which would mean my entire deployment zone of heavy weapons.

I looking at a non-Mobil Guard setup, lots of heavy weapons and troops.
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Old 21 May 2009, 13:40   #7 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

Quote:
1. Twenty four inch command bubble vs. twelve
So, what's wrong with 12"? Plenty for me.

Quote:
2. Four commands a round vs. two
Plenty for me though I do field Combined Infantry Squads rather than Heavy Weapons Team.

Quote:
3. Outflank one unit vs. none
Yeah if I had any to outflank.

Quote:
4. Furious charge vs. none
You find shooting to be more worthwhile than charging.

Yeah, sure you got all these neat tricks. You pay what you get for. For me, 2 Orders with a Command Radius of 12" is enough for me. And I don't see the need to spend a certain amount of points to make an outflanking unit or one to take advantage of the Furious Charge Order.
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Old 21 May 2009, 14:07   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

Honestly, the outflank seems best used for the Fast Attack tank squadrons...dropping three fast tanks on the right flank of a Tau gunline and spamming tank shocks (are you feeling lucky enough to make 3 tank shocks per squad affected?) can really mess a foe up good.
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Old 21 May 2009, 14:28   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

IMO special characters don't really even belong in a guard list. Leave the overpriced crap to the SM. I want more guardsmen and heavy weapons.
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Old 21 May 2009, 23:54   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Creed and Kell, vital for heavy weapon squads?

Obviously we all have different play styles, I was trying to put forth reasons to take Creed/Kell. I was hoping to gain some insight from players that did. I realize when someone puts something out there that you don't play, ergo me commenting on a list using nine Valkyries, your first impulse is to say, "Bah that's not how I run my list, ergo your point is irrelevant." But try and emphasize with the poster a little, things I find odd....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Quote:
1. Twenty four inch command bubble vs. twelve
So, what's wrong with 12"? Plenty for me.
Static Guard using four to five HWS, not so easy to put in 12"

Quote:
2. Four commands a round vs. two
Plenty for me though I do field Combined Infantry Squads rather than Heavy Weapons Team.

O.K. So plenty for you because you don't do what the topic is about?

Quote:
3. Outflank one unit vs. none
Yeah if I had any to outflank.

What?

Quote:
4. Furious charge vs. none
You find shooting to be more worthwhile than charging.

No, I like having the option when it is unavoidable

Yeah, sure you got all these neat tricks. You pay what you get for. For me, 2 Orders with a Command Radius of 12" is enough for me. And I don't see the need to spend a certain amount of points to make an outflanking unit or one to take advantage of the Furious Charge Order.

Now this part I understand, you are stating you don't use the same genome as I do, that's cool. I plan on using an outflanking unit and "neat tricks" but see why some people would disdain them.
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