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Orders and Storm Troopers Question
View Poll Results: Do Hot-Shot weapons count as Lasguns?
Yes, the count as "lasguns". (Nice Tactic) 3 9.68%
No. Hot-shots are not "lasguns". (Damian is Cheesy Git) 28 90.32%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08 May 2009, 13:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Orders and Storm Troopers Question

One of the curious things about the new codex is that the stormtrooper entry renamed all their basic weapons, from hell-guns to "Hot-Shot Lasgun". It is still rapid fire, but the maximum range is six inches less than before.

What I'm wondering is, would you count this as a Lasgun weapon for the purposes of the "First Rank, FIRE! Second Rank, FIRE!" order that can be given by command squads, given the following stipulation(s)?

1.) The maximum range of the weapon is 18". Therefore, even though the order declares that you fire two shots at an opponent up to 24" away, the weapon does not fire if the model is more than 18" away.
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Old 08 May 2009, 13:49   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

This is why I wish they'd stuck with the name "Hellgun". It sounds better, and avoids confusion.

For the record, I don't believe you can give Stormtroopers any orders, as they are not part of the standard Guard command structure - they have their own mission, given by a much higher power than whoever is leading your army, and they won't take a blind bit of notice to some jumped-up twit with a shiny monocle!
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Old 08 May 2009, 14:14   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

HSLG is not a "lasgun". It's a Hellgun with a Hot-Shot Backpack.
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Old 08 May 2009, 14:35   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

No, because the Storm Troopers are given Special Operations, thus why they do not have Orders, because they are required to achieve a specific mission (or missions).
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Old 08 May 2009, 14:46   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
HSLG is not a "lasgun". It's a Hellgun with a Hot-Shot Backpack.
I am thoroughly agree about the name, which is why I'm bringing it up. It was an odd convention (and please pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate here), I think you can see where the confusion arises. The weapon's includes the word "LASGUN" right there, whereas they refer to the weapon as a hellgun only once, in flavor text.

I'm not saying that it's right. I'm just pointing out that there is a semi-valid argument to the weapon being confused for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
This is why I wish they'd stuck with the name "Hellgun". It sounds better, and avoids confusion.

For the record, I don't believe you can give Stormtroopers any orders, as they are not part of the standard Guard command structure - they have their own mission, given by a much higher power than whoever is leading your army, and they won't take a blind bit of notice to some jumped-up twit with a shiny monocle!
Again, I agree that if they wanted to avoid confusion, they should have stuck with the old name.

And, while storm troopers have their own dedicated Mission, you can still give them orders. Nothing in the rulebook indicates that you cannot, either in the Orders special rule section, or in the Storm Trooper entry...which is why you can also use "Fire on my Target!" to royally screw over Marines in cover. It's still an issue to worry about.


I'm glad that I've gotten responses from two of the brightest minds on TO, though. I hope this discussion will clear up the issue for guard beginners who might have this same question.
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Old 08 May 2009, 14:50   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

actually it doesn't say anything about storm troopers not being able to be given orders(same with ratlings and orgyns). However if you plan to use the special operation rules you'll probally be out of order range.

However I don't think HSLG is elegible for the FRFSRF order because as 'lasgun' is the one that uses the stat line in the referance sheet

I just got the book a couple of days ago, so if anyone sees something contradicting what I've posted please give me the page number so I can correct myself.
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Old 08 May 2009, 17:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha
I am thoroughly agree about the name, which is why I'm bringing it up. It was an odd convention (and please pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate here), I think you can see where the confusion arises. The weapon's includes the word "LASGUN" right there, whereas they refer to the weapon as a hellgun only once, in flavor text.
Heavy Bolters include the word "BOLTER", but Sternguard with Heavy Bolters (or Bolt Pistols, or Storm Bolters) don't get Special Ammunition.
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Old 08 May 2009, 17:38   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha
I am thoroughly agree about the name, which is why I'm bringing it up. It was an odd convention (and please pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate here), I think you can see where the confusion arises. The weapon's includes the word "LASGUN" right there, whereas they refer to the weapon as a hellgun only once, in flavor text.
Heavy Bolters include the word "BOLTER", but Sternguard with Heavy Bolters (or Bolt Pistols, or Storm Bolters) don't get Special Ammunition.
Actaually there was an article on another forum that said they did. I forget how they proved it but it was accepted there. I'll see if I can find it. Myself I don't know anything about bolters so can't say anything.

back on topic. NO a Hotshot lasgun is about as much of a lasgun as an ordinance weapon is a ordinance blast weapon. It's not the exact terminology and so the rules don't match up. Besides who would want to FRFSRF on stormtroopers anyway, that's either incredibly unfair against marines or just wasted shots against anyone else when you can combine two or three infantry squads and get 90 base shots off.
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Old 08 May 2009, 19:49   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

Quote:
Besides who would want to FRFSRF on stormtroopers anyway
I think you kind of answered your own question there. As the guard player, I don't really care if its fair to the marine player or not, if it kills the target then that's awesome. I agree you can't combine the two though. A hot-shot lasgun is not the same as a lasgun just the same as a laspistol is not a lasgun. Only actual lasguns will benefit from FRFSRF. The previously mentioned FOMT combo could be an interesting one though... Take 2 senior officer squads, keeping one in the back where he belongs to buff heavy weapon crews and motor the other one up the field in a chimera along with your 2 large squads of stormies and you'll have no problem chewing through multiple marine squads every turn.
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Old 08 May 2009, 23:09   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Orders and Storm Troopers Question

That's a quite viable tactic considering the base cost for your second command squad + transport is just a hair over 100 pts.
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