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5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 02:13   #1 (permalink)
Zen
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Default 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

Just one word before we start; NO ARMY BASHING!

[hr]

Anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFTACP
No need to pause the discussion since just about everyone knows the rules regarding the Valk. The biggest question is how many points will be saved in the new lists and then how many valks will we be able to fit in these new lists?
Leman Russes have become more expensive due to their increase in Side AV to 13 and their Lumbering Behemoth Special Rule so my list changed little. I've decided to take Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken as my Counter-CC solution and a Lord Commissar as HQs to bolster my SIGAFH. Medics give FNP now and since Command Squads are more of a Fire Magnet, I've decided Medi-packs are in need.
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 03:02   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

So many points will be saved..

In my infantry heavy list (1000pts), the reduced cost of squads and some heavy weapons give me enough points to the 2 extra Multi-laser sentinels. Not much but still better than before.

Like Zenai, i played around with the medics for feel no pain, but that medickit is alot of points to give a command squad FNP so i passed on it. I'm not a fan of special characters and since they dont affect the FOC like sm ones i dont think they will be seeing action.

One of the places where the codex really shines (in my opinion) is for my mobile mech list. The point reduction for chimera's is huge benefit. I basically get 1 more team of men in a chimera in my 1000pts list.

So yeah, thats the new codex for me. Not as much of a change as when the new ork codex came, but i welcome the slight changes non-the less.
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 03:23   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

Quote:
One of the places where the codex really shines (in my opinion) is for my mobile mech list. The point reduction for chimera's is huge benefit. I basically get 1 more team of men in a chimera in my 1000pts list.
I agree. IG can pretty much match Eldar or Tau in Skimmer Warfare or at least Mechanized lists. Valkyries are dish out a lot of dakka for their points but they're not as tough as Eldar Skimmers (Holo Fields or Energy Fields) or Tau Skimmers (Disruption Pods). Chimeras has become cheaper alternative for a Mech IG force.
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 15:25   #4 (permalink)
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Hey fellas, I was talking about the codex with Zenai, Tyn and others on chat and decided to pop in to give my opinions.

Note- I am not army bashing. Read the full point first, since I should be showing both sides of the arguement.

OK, I haven't given it a full look-over yet, but the tread-head in me is happy. Therefor, I shall talk about armour first.

Leman Russ squadrions- Good idea, but bad in reality. Mainly the "1-3, combination of any varients". No. That's not how any real army would do it, and not the way it would be done in 40k. No, I am not a fluff die-hard. But saying you can have a punisher, a vanquisher and a demolisher in a single squadron is silly. I will use the CAF Stryker brigades as an example. Each section of infantry has a stryker. Each brigade has special vehicles, like med-evacs, engineers, mobile gun system etc. We don't throw three different sections together and say we're good to go!

It should be 2 of a kind, with the squadron leader as a different kind. That makes more sense. Two punishers and the auto-cannon varient. Or 2 normal and 1 demolisher. Or 2 normal and a vanquisher. See what I mean? In Canadian terms, this could be two Anti-tank Guided Weapon strykers, and one mobile gun system, or vice versa.

Second- The punisher
I, for one, like that. It kind of came out of the blue, but thats good and bad. The imperium is a massive place, and there is bound to be things that we don't know about. But again, the anti-infantry role used to be the exterminator with a bunch of heavy bolters. Now the executioner is relegated to transport-busting only. Then again, the space marines came out of nowhere with thunderfires, landraider redeemers etc. I also like it for the simple fact that it is new.

It does not seem unbalanced to me. Always getting a save and the average BS counter the high rate of fire and good strength. I see this having two uses, horde control and anti-terminator. Force enough saves...

Third- New hellhounds.

Yeah baby! I remember a long time ago someone converted their hellhound to fire poison gas (like in WW!) and now that has become canon! I like the banewolf, as it still needs to get up close to be effective, and boy is it ever! I can see it being a major fire magnet.

The melta-hound sounds nice, too. Kind of like an immolator with no transport but better armour.

Valkyrie- I don't know enough right now, but it sounds great from what I've heard.

Artillery varients- good variety, but besides the griffon they all suffer the same thing the basilisk does. What are they doing on the front lines?

Deathstrike- Here's one of the codex's silly points. The Deathstrike was questionable even in epic, as it is akin to a Inter-continental ballistic missile. What is it doing anywhere near the front line, and firing in such close quarters?!

OK, that sums it up for me on armoured additions. On to infantry...

I like the new platoon structure. With conscripts and veterans add-ons to a normal platoon. I also like the orders from what I've read so far (But arguably, not much has been read.)

The storm troopers sound great. Keep them in cover to stay away from heavy bolters and other weapons, sneak them up (or have them positioned to ambush assault marines) and those AP3 las-carbines (Less range) is going to hurt, bad. Besides the extra strength and range, I don't see much use in upgrading to plasma (If your MEQ killing, not tank killing.) I can still see myself bringing a melta though, for some tank-punch.

And that's as far as I've gotten...

See ya folk!
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 16:42   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

I've read the codex, and I think it's hilarious that you can get a tank that can put out 5 plasma cannon shots in one turn.
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 17:54   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

Another key point that many people have looked over-

Grenade launcher reduced cost! Remember all those time people have commented that if it was cheaper they'd use it? Well now its cheaper!

One thing though, the copy I own doesn't have page 99, which has the cost of the chimera.

Can someone say how many points less than the previous one (without equipment) is?
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 18:28   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

I'm confused with the Infantry Platoon entry. It says 1 command squad, 0-1 conscript squad, 2-5 Infantry squad, 0-5 heavy weapons squads, 0-2 special weapons squads. Now does this mean you can take a command squad plus 13 other squads or is it just 5 squads like the old codex just a diffferent arrangement.
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 18:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

My average guardsmen squad consisted of an AC and a vox, with the new cost of guardsmen and the cheaper HW's I'll be saving 15 points per squad. That's a minimum of 60 points in every list. The command squad is a lot cheaper now as well, although I still have to see how much the options I want will cost. I'm going to skip out on the FNP as I keep my lists very infantry heavy so I'm pretty confident that I can keep my leadership behind a wall of bodies.

As far as special characters go, I'll most likely be skipping on including any. I haven't really paid too much attention to them but I'm generally not very interested in special characters because they just seem unfluffy. They should be a rare occurrence, not something you use in every list. Sly Morbo does look pretty fun though.

I haven't looked much into the Commissar Lord, or how expensive Commissars are to each squad, but that's something I might look into for my guardsmen. Now that apparently the voxes don't convey the officer's leadership anymore I'll need a better way to make sure my units don't fall back, as that's pretty much my most hated event in this game. I love to see people fail morale checks and hate to do it myself. I wonder if to offset this there will be multiple standards allowed in the list. Rerolling morale checks is always satisfying.

I love the large number of HW support squads, and it's even better that they aren't attached to the command squad or HS options anymore. Seemed kind of silly. This makes them much more useful and available to everyone. As much as I don't like the survivability of the squad, it makes it much easier for your opponent to be able to reduce the number of HW teams you have as now they don't have to go through 9 other bodies before that base is removed. Of course the flip side to that is now you have twice as many HW bases as before lol. Iirc the price of a basic HW support squad with mortars is about 20 points cheaper than it is now, with most of the HW upgrades only costing around half of what they do now.

I see myself running guardsmen squads without HW teams, leaving those up to my support squads so I can have more mobile guardsmen (flamers/grenade launchers hooray!). Since there is no platoon drill rule, we won't be able to hide our HW support squads behind a sea of guardsmen so they'll have to be set up in cover, but without all those bodies for protection. So I'm sure they will be large fire magnets and I predict that I'll have to advance my guardsmen so that they become more of a threat to divert fire from the HW squads.

The best part of the new HW support squads now is that they are troop choices! So as guardsmen we really won't have to worry about leaving valuable squads behind to secure objectives as it'll just easy to just plop a HW support squad down on it and call it a day. The only downside is that I'll need to buy a lot more of these things I currently own 12 but I have a feeling I'll probably need to double that soon.

As far as the tanks go, I only own 3 LRBT's so I doubt I'll be using the squadron rule. I don't mind that they have a slightly increased points cost as the new lumbering giants rule will allow me to keep moving my 6" and still get to fire my battle cannon and the hull lascannon. I'll most likely still be skipping on the sponsoons as unless I'm making a stationary dakka variant I really don't want to spend that many points on my fire magnets.

Chimeras! I've always loved these vehicles, they look great and are one of the best transports available to any army. Not only are these things cheaper, but now they have the command vehicle special rule, allowing the HQ units inside to issue orders from within the vehicle. This increases the range of your orders as you measure from the hull of the vehicle. It'll also add a much needed protection for the HQ squad as well as offering come extra fire. I'll consider this mandatory equipment for my HQ in every list. I'll put a master of the ordnance (I'll rename them TACP controllers ;D) in every list and have him sit inside there as well.

I was slightly disappointed to see such an increase in points cost of the SS. Sure the AP3 lasgun is cool, but I always used them as a CC squad anyways. The upside to this is their new special rule allowing them to reroll DS's from the Valkyrie, and of course the addition of a AP3 pistol + ccw. So with those in mind I don't mind too much about the cost as I'm happy to be able to get those extra attacks when I charge.

Last but not least, the Valkyrie. I plan on just taking the normal variant with the multilaser and swapping the missiles for missile pods. This will allow me to make my 12" move while still being able to fire the multilaser and still being able to drop templates down as the S4 missile pods are defensive weapons. As far as I'm concerned as soon as the Valkyrie has dropped off my Kasrkin squad it's mission is complete and anything else it does is merely a bonus. Hopefully I'll be able to use it's fast speed and ability to ignore intervening cover to drop some death on any squads my opponent is attempting to hide behind cover/vehicles.

I have yet to actually get my hands on this codex, as I prefer to wait until I actually own it so I can peruse it at my leisure, and I also like to keep the excitement up so it'll be that much better when I start thumbing through it.

Edit: To avoid double-posting...

Quote:
Another key point that many people have looked over-

Grenade launcher reduced cost! Remember all those time people have commented that if it was cheaper they'd use it? Well now its cheaper!

One thing though, the copy I own doesn't have page 99, which has the cost of the chimera.

Can someone say how many points less than the previous one (without equipment) is?
All the weapons are cheaper with the exeption of the plasma gun, which I never used anyways. Hooray for that! The chimeras I think dropped base cost about 30-40 points, because afaik the multilaser is standard now with the point cost included.

Quote:
I'm confused with the Infantry Platoon entry. It says 1 command squad, 0-1 conscript squad, 2-5 Infantry squad, 0-5 heavy weapons squads, 0-2 special weapons squads. Now does this mean you can take a command squad plus 13 other squads or is it just 5 squads like the old codex just a diffferent arrangement.
You're correct. Each infantry platoon needs a minimum of a command squad and two infantry squads, but now they can have all of these other squads in addition and it still counds as 1 FOC.


Edit: I just saw on the GW site that they are offering all 3 advisors together for $17. Not bad!
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Old 13 Apr 2009, 19:29   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFTACP
I wonder if to offset this there will be multiple standards allowed in the list. Rerolling morale checks is always satisfying.
The re-roll moral standard is only available in the Hq command squads. Having played 2 games with the two of the banners, i can say that ld8 re-roll is quite nice. Although it gets a little pricey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFTACP
I see myself running guardsmen squads without HW teams, leaving those up to my support squads so I can have more mobile guardsmen (flamers/grenade launchers hooray!). Since there is no platoon drill rule, we won't be able to hide our HW support squads behind a sea of guardsmen so they'll have to be set up in cover, but without all those bodies for protection. So I'm sure they will be large fire magnets and I predict that I'll have to advance my guardsmen so that they become more of a threat to divert fire from the HW squads.

The best part of the new HW support squads now is that they are troop choices! So as guardsmen we really won't have to worry about leaving valuable squads behind to secure objectives as it'll just easy to just plop a HW support squad down on it and call it a day. The only downside is that I'll need to buy a lot more of these things I currently own 12 but I have a feeling I'll probably need to double that soon.
Yes Yes and yes. With the cheaper flamers/grenades/ and grenade launchers i also found myself doing that exact same thing. Using SCORING heavy weapon teams with AC or HB or ML to blow stuff up while a mass of cheap infantry with special weapons was advancing to pressure the ennemy. It actually worked quite well. The use of mobile squads without heavy weapons is quite a change from my previous lists but its a welcomed change.

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Old 13 Apr 2009, 19:32   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Imperial Guard Codex Discussion Thread

Quote:
The re-roll moral standard is only available in the Hq command squads. Having played 2 games with the two of the banners, i can say that ld8 re-roll is quite nice. Although it gets a little pricey.
Now that command squads are substantially cheaper, I'll definitely try to take two. I'll keep one in a command Chimera to babysit my HW teams and use one to advance with my guardsmen.

Quote:
Yes Yes and yes. With the cheaper flamers/grenades/ and grenade launchers i also found myself doing that exact same thing. Using SCORING heavy weapon teams with AC or HB or ML to blow stuff up while a mass of cheap infantry with special weapons was advancing to pressure the ennemy. It actually worked quite well. The use of mobile squads without heavy weapons is quite a change from my previous lists but its a welcomed change.
When I first decided to start an IG army that's how I pictured it. I wanted a large amount of guardsmen to slowly advance up the field with tanks and HW's providing cover fire. However that wasn't really possible back then. I'm stoked that now I'll finally be able to play like that. SIGAFH is not the way I want to play
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