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is sharp shooter a waste of points
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 18:02   #31 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

Oh I see, I was looking at the data wrong. However I don't feel this shows that sharpshooters are better. They have a slightly higher percentage to get between 11-14 hits and 7-10, but regular guardsmen have a 14% chance to get 15-17 whereas SS guardsmen only have a 9%.

Obviously the chance to get the higher shots if of more importance than the lower, so the fact that the overall percentage of regular guardsmen to get average to above average is higher than that of SS guardsmen shows me that they are in fact better.

73% for regular guardsmen vs 70% for SS guardsmen. Also take into account that you have an extra 2 wounds (which is possibly the most important variable as squishy as guardsmen are).

I think this data clearly shows that non SS guardsmen are preferable due to a higher average number of shots and the extra survivability.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 19:21   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

I never said Sharpshooters was better. I'm up in the air, actually, because to me the extra wounds vs the extra reliability is the biggest thing, and I see them as being about even.

As far as I'm concerned it's a tie. I think the only thing that can be done is try it out for yourself and decide whether you like more reliability or more wounds, and also it's a little important to take into account how much space and overlapping firepower is possible. In small games I think more models would be better, but in really big games where you have so many models that they get in the way of each other and have difficulty supporting, Sharpshooters may be the way to go!

It's also important to remember that you don't have to put it on all squads...
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 19:38   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

Quote:
I never said Sharpshooters was better. I'm up in the air, actually, because to me the extra wounds vs the extra reliability is the biggest thing, and I see them as being about even.
The post wasn't directed at you, I wasn't claiming that you though SS was better or not.

However the data does show that in fact SS actually does have a lower percentage chance to get an average to above average number of hits.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 20:06   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFTACP
Quote:
I never said Sharpshooters was better. I'm up in the air, actually, because to me the extra wounds vs the extra reliability is the biggest thing, and I see them as being about even.
The post wasn't directed at you, I wasn't claiming that you though SS was better or not.

However the data does show that in fact SS actually does have a lower percentage chance to get an average to above average number of hits.
And a lower chance at getting below-average numbers of hits.

My luck is never good except when it just doesn't matter. Normally I am more concerned about preventing failure than following a possibility of greater success. When you make a battle plan, the biggest thing to account for is your own units failing - not them doing better than they should.

Sharpshooters is more reliable, there's no way around that, and reliability is one of the things that makes a unit exceptional. Let's face it, any of us would rather have a unit that performs a task moderately well all the time than a unit that may do exceedingly well, or fail horrifically. I know that the Sharpshooters debate is not to that extreme, but I'll take any reliability I can get personally.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 21:47   #35 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

SS may be slightly more reliable, but not for the points cost associated with it. The table previously posted is evidence to that. SS guardsmen have a high chance of getting average to below average rolls while regular guardsmen have a high chance to get average to above average.

Another factor is of course the wounds, which has been taken discussed.

The third factor, which a lot of people seem to be ignoring, is that a majority of your shots will not be lasguns. The real reason you give your squads SS is to help out the heavy/special weapon you put with the squad. Considering an Autocannon is only 15 points, throwing another 10 on top of that is quite a waste. I'd rather buy another HB or Autocannon and it'd be a much more effective allocation of points.
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Old 01 Feb 2009, 02:00   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

Great post Unusualsuspect! +1

And thanks to who brought it to my attention.

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Old 01 Feb 2009, 02:11   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

*shrug* Like I said, player's own experience will tell whether it is worth it or nor in this kind of cases. And Mathhammer is kinda moot as well as you won't see the average unless you roll 100+ dices e.g. 30 Slugga Boyz charging and assaulting.
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Old 01 Feb 2009, 02:26   #38 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

While you won't roll 100 dice at once, you easily will over the coarse of a few games, so I think it has it's place. Just as long as you're not looking at the scope of one game.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 16:30   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: is sharp shooter a waste of points

It seems to me it comes down purely to personal preference. Surely it's not something worth losing your tempers over.

It's not pleseant for people like me to read this wondering "I was thinking about that, what do the other people think" and find that most of the topic is pretty much just people bickering, presenting personal preference as fact.
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