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Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D
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Old 01 Jan 2009, 23:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Hiya!

I've been out of the 40k loop for quite a while, but recently I've gotten an itch to start up my Guard projects and update it for 5th edition. I do know the 5th edition rules pretty ok, but I don't know how they've affected the Imperial Guard in general and my favorite units in particular.

So, if it's not too forward, I'd like to know how Guards fare today, and some units in particular. Since rumour has it that Doctrines are going to go bye-bye, I don't really see the need to go into those.

Snipers - I have a squad of Guardsmen Snipers. I know, I know, ratlings are better, but are these guys better or worse nowdays?
Armoured Fist Squads - are these guy's still worth having? I really like my chimeras, and they do seem to be a bit more surviable than they used to be, so I guess that protects my now much more important troops, right? I've never liked the SIGAFH approach as much as the mechanized one. I guess I'm too much of a tau player at heart.
Storm Troopers - I have a squad of these guys too, in a chimera, with some plasmaguns. They've preformed well in the past, and I guess that's pretty much the same? What do people use stormtroopers for nowdays?
Rough Riders - I have ten rough riders. I love the little horse'd buggers. I'm guessing they're usedul for storming objectives and stuff, maybe?
Sentinels - With the changed Scout rules, are these guys finally worth taking? I have three, just because of the awsomeness of the model, but I'd like to know if people use them, and how?
Support Squads/Tooled HQ squads - are these worth taking? I always enjoyed them, because I feel stupid fireing 2 Autocannon and 18 useless Lasgun shots at tanks, but do people use these, and if so in what manner?

A lot of questions, maybe. I'm grateful for any and all tips I get.
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Old 02 Jan 2009, 00:34   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

As far as a tooled up command hq goes it really helps seeing as in dawn of war deployment they really limit the amount of units you can field but guard command platoons can deploy all of it at the same time. As far as chimeras go i love i still use em i always will but they keep getting assaulted by gaunts and ork boys and getting immobilized and sometimes destroyed. In the 5th edition rules when vehicles are assaulted its always to their rear armor. Storm troopers rock i often field em as grenadiers to hold objectives seeing as only troop choices can do that now. Don't know much about ruff riders but i want to get some just to see how affective i can make em.
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Old 02 Jan 2009, 00:52   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

I generally only play against Death Guard and other Imperial Guard, so having my chimeras assaulted by gaunts or ork boyz won't be much of a problem. Glad to hear they're not totally hopeless, at any rate.

Another thing I've been wondering has been how our Heavy and Special weapons are ranked nowdays. With coversaves on vehicles, are the one-shot Lascannons Missile Launchers a waste of points? and that sort of thing.
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Old 02 Jan 2009, 00:58   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

well i have yet to get a vehicle in cover but maybe thats because of the scenery we use. But lascannons have helped me on occassion i usually keep a squad with one in a chimera rush em to an objective in the third or fourth turn and try to just shoot everything away till the game ends. Its helped me kill a few monstrous creatures but oddly enough no tanks yet. My stormtroopers are the tank killers deepstriking in with two plasma guns. I need to buy the melta gun models.
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Old 02 Jan 2009, 02:13   #5 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Quote:
Snipers - I have a squad of Guardsmen Snipers. I know, I know, ratlings are better, but are these guys better or worse nowdays?
You mean those Snipers from the Special Weapons Support Squad? Worse. In the 5th, you're hitting on BS which means 4+ to hit and 4+ to wound. Ratlings are better per say.

Quote:
Armoured Fist Squads - are these guy's still worth having? I really like my chimeras, and they do seem to be a bit more surviable than they used to be, so I guess that protects my now much more important troops, right? I've never liked the SIGAFH approach as much as the mechanized one. I guess I'm too much of a tau player at heart.
It's one of those player's preference. If you want to Mechanized, go for it. Just remember there's always a learning curve for every army and their play style.

Quote:
Storm Troopers - I have a squad of these guys too, in a chimera, with some plasmaguns. They've preformed well in the past, and I guess that's pretty much the same? What do people use stormtroopers for nowdays?
Anything, basically. But Mechanized List tend to let their vehicles do the shooting while the Infantry they're carrying disembark from their transport and sit an objective. But that depends on the situation as well.

Quote:
Rough Riders - I have ten rough riders. I love the little horse'd buggers. I'm guessing they're usedul for storming objectives and stuff, maybe?
That and as a Counter-Assault unit. Pretty good against TEQs. But not the MCs.

Quote:
Sentinels - With the changed Scout rules, are these guys finally worth taking? I have three, just because of the awsomeness of the model, but I'd like to know if people use them, and how?
In the 5th Ed, Outflanking. With outflanking Sentinels your opponent will always watch their flanks and maybe draw units from the center to protect the flank.

Quote:
Support Squads/Tooled HQ squads - are these worth taking? I always enjoyed them, because I feel stupid fireing 2 Autocannon and 18 useless Lasgun shots at tanks, but do people use these, and if so in what manner?
Now, this is really a player's preferences. This you have to experience yourself. But as a rule of thumb, keep your units cheap but give the essential upgrades.

Quote:
As far as a tooled up command hq goes it really helps seeing as in dawn of war deployment they really limit the amount of units you can field but guard command platoons can deploy all of it at the same time.
No. In the DoW Passage, it says "Unit", not "Choice". So, you can only deploy up to one HQ unit (Your Command Squad) and two Troop units (Command Squad or Infantry Squad. Chimeras count as one Troop unit btw)
Quote:
Another thing I've been wondering has been how our Heavy and Special weapons are ranked nowdays. With coversaves on vehicles, are the one-shot Lascannons Missile Launchers a waste of points? and that sort of thing.
You can say that. I've been moving from AT Heavy Weapons to Multi-shot weapons like Heavy Bolters and Autocannons. And template weapons as well. Though I take Meltaguns on my DSing Hard Vets.
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Old 02 Jan 2009, 13:46   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Snipers - I have a squad of Guardsmen Snipers. I know, I know, ratlings are better, but are these guys better or worse nowdays?
worse. As zenai said you need you BS to hit and still wound on a 4+. However with the sniper rifles now rending. Ratlings are better nowadays. You could always have your snipers count as ratlings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Armoured Fist Squads - are these guy's still worth having? I really like my chimeras, and they do seem to be a bit more surviable than they used to be, so I guess that protects my now much more important troops, right? I've never liked the SIGAFH approach as much as the mechanized one. I guess I'm too much of a tau player at heart.
Yes these guys are still usefull but not as vital. With the new run rule normal infantry squads can move quite quickly. But an AFS can still have it's uses. In fact with the new diticated transports rule it may be a good idea so it can transport whatever squad you want not just the AFS. Like if you're storm troopers get their ride shot from under them and you wanted to keep them in a transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Storm Troopers - I have a squad of these guys too, in a chimera, with some plasmaguns. They've preformed well in the past, and I guess that's pretty much the same? What do people use stormtroopers for nowdays?
I usually deep strike them, especially now that deep striking has a smaller chance of you're troops just dieing now. Putting them in a transport may be nice for a "drive by" at 12" 3 str6 and 4 str7 is nothing to laugh at, it even stands a decent chance to pop a Russ if you get side armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Rough Riders - I have ten rough riders. I love the little horse'd buggers. I'm guessing they're usedul for storming objectives and stuff, maybe?
I've never used rough riders, If theres one unit of MEQs on the objective yeah they'd be fine. Any more and you'd kill one squad and die now that you can't consolodate into a second unit after wiping out another unit, so they'd be sitting ducks. If you do that just remember to have some infantry following up because the RR can't hold the objective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Sentinels - With the changed Scout rules, are these guys finally worth taking? I have three, just because of the awsomeness of the model, but I'd like to know if people use them, and how?
I love these guys. I've used outflanking on several people and it's highly effective. I perfer the heavy flamer(I use drop troops so these guys either drop or outflank depending on the situation). If you play against something like a tau or guard gunline nothing is more scary than a flamer sentinal coming up in the perfect position to barbaque a whole squad(and charge the survivers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Quote:
Support Squads/Tooled HQ squads - are these worth taking? I always enjoyed them, because I feel stupid fireing 2 Autocannon and 18 useless Lasgun shots at tanks, but do people use these, and if so in what manner?
Now, this is really a player's preferences. This you have to experience yourself. But as a rule of thumb, keep your units cheap but give the essential upgrades.

Quote:
As far as a tooled up command hq goes it really helps seeing as in dawn of war deployment they really limit the amount of units you can field but guard command platoons can deploy all of it at the same time.
No. In the DoW Passage, it says "Unit", not "Choice". So, you can only deploy up to one HQ unit (Your Command Squad) and two Troop units (Command Squad or Infantry Squad. Chimeras count as one Troop unit btw)
Most players won't care if you deploy a 2 troop and a HQ choice. But if you are going by the RAW(though it's so hard to spot only an almost insane powergamer would spot it in the first place) You can only deploy your entire HQ platoon and only 2 infantry squads.

the way the rule is worded says(paraphased) that HQ: "The platoon counts as a unit that deploys individually" where as the Troops: "The platoon deploys at the same time as individual units"

But as I said most players won't care about that little word twisting. Especially if you mostly play against other IG, because that rule is just as good for them as you.
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Old 02 Jan 2009, 21:33   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Thank you all for the tips! I'll cherish the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
You could always have your snipers count as ratlings.
Yes, I've been thinking about that. Kind of puny Guardsmen, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
I've never used rough riders, If theres one unit of MEQs on the objective yeah they'd be fine. Any more and you'd kill one squad and die now that you can't consolodate into a second unit after wiping out another unit, so they'd be sitting ducks.
That sounds more or less like they used to be, though. Against pretty much anything but Tau the Rough Riders tended to be a kind of one-shot weapon, as they loose their Hunting Lances.
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Old 03 Jan 2009, 08:32   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Just a second!

Quote:
I've used outflanking on several people
You're cheating!

Since the Rule book says that the codex rules take precedence over rule book rules, and the codex scout rules (imperial guard scout rule) doesn't mention outflanking, by RAW you cannot outflank. You have a very similar rule, with the same name, but can't out flank.

Oh, and by the way, my local GW store owner told me that I couldn't take human snipers as ratlings, even though I had converted these guys with the intention of being ratlings. (don't like ratling models). Kind of a WYSIWYG thing apparently
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Old 03 Jan 2009, 12:17   #9 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Darth Riah, that's your store. You have to remember there's hundreds of 40K Clubs and Stores around the world who has different interpretations on things. Like in my store, I can use Cadian Snipers instead of Ratlings because I told my Club Manager that Ratling models suck donkey balls and he doesn't mind.

Then about Sentinel and Outflanking. We're already 2 editions behind so playing friendly is OK with RAI is fine as long as your opponent doesn't mind. Same goes with the DoW; I can deploy my entire Platoon if I wanted too.

You have to remember that there's a difference of environment and different players that ruled the store between different stores and clubs. I'm just lucky that my store frowns upon Powergamers and Rule-Lawyers that either been silenced or exiled as we all are just there to have fun.
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Old 04 Jan 2009, 20:54   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Out of touch Guard player looking for a briefing. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
Darth Riah, that's your store. You have to remember there's hundreds of 40K Clubs and Stores around the world who has different interpretations on things. Like in my store, I can use Cadian Snipers instead of Ratlings because I told my Club Manager that Ratling models suck donkey balls and he doesn't mind.

Then about Sentinel and Outflanking. We're already 2 editions behind so playing friendly is OK with RAI is fine as long as your opponent doesn't mind. Same goes with the DoW; I can deploy my entire Platoon if I wanted too.

You have to remember that there's a difference of environment and different players that ruled the store between different stores and clubs. I'm just lucky that my store frowns upon Powergamers and Rule-Lawyers that either been silenced or exiled as we all are just there to have fun.
Honestly, the IG codex was made for 3rd ed, so though RAW may not state that sentinals can outflank, thier still using an old rule called "scouts". I regularly play against a guy who uses converted snipers because, yes, the ratlings look terrible, I mean who walks around into a warzone with bare feet?
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