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Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 06:50   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Default Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

So in the past, on more than one occasion, ive sat down and looked at the IG codex. Every other codex that ive seen, I was able to look at it and see possibilities for different armies and strategies.. but something about the IG just doesnt "click" with me.

I just dont understand what their strengths are. I cant figure out what units are strong.. which ones are fodder.. which ones are great if used in certain situations.. everything seems so.."similar" and "mediocre". I dont know if that is just the way that the IG are, or if I just dont "get them".

So I was just wondering if anyone here could give me a rundown of how they play IG. What kinds of tactics you like.. what are your favorite units.. do you have anything that just melts faces... which army can you totally dominate.

Im really interested in the IG..but I am having a hard time understanding how I could make use of them.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 07:19   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

IG is, IMO, one of the coolest and most tactically....different....armies there is. There are so many different options. You can:

Run a fully mechanized army with three Leman Russ's and a crapton of Armored Fist chimera mounted units and Sentinels.

Run an army that's almost entirely drop oriented. Give your squads meltas and flamers, and watch your enemy squirm as your men drop out right on top of him and melt his face.

Run a static army with three basilisks and with heavy weapons squads for troops (doctrines 4tw)

Run a horde army with more conscripts then your opponent can handle.

These are just lists I've seen, I'm a tau player, but I've always kind of wished I had the money to start a Mech-IG army to compliment my bluies.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 07:21   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Well I play a gunline IG army, and the guard have 4 main 'branches'
a: guardsmen: standard footsloggers, the lasgun an be very dangerous en masse and I often have trouble fitting all my guardsmen into my deployment zone!
b: elites: stormtroopers, vets, etc are interesting units but dont put too much wargear on them because they still are quite fragile, useful for special roles like tank hunting
c: heavy weps: the guard have some dangerous heavy weapons at their command and they can be taken all over the army list, honourary mention: grenade launcher
d: tanks: the guard have, without argument, some of the best tanks in the game, I run 2 lemans and a bassie, the lemans sit behind my gunling blasting stuff with ordnance while the bassie does the same but from further back

I always find that I cream marines, especially when there are no termies, s8 ap3 battlecannons on the russes splat 3+sv marines way to easily, I have a W8 D1 L0 againts my friends white scars pure biker army, t5 doesnt make up for the fact that I'm ignoring their expensive 3+ save and I kill those kind of armies in droves

I also play against orks often and have a W5 D2 L1 against them, as my massed lasguns mow orks down and my missile launchers and tanks blow large holes in the enemy horde, this would probably work the same vs nids but I've never played them with my guard

The guard are more forgiving than eldar but not as forgiving as marines, with the right tactics and troops you can have a game winning army to play with, oh and it's fun to realise that you can barely fit all your troops and tanks into your deployment zone while there are huge gaps in the enemy lines!

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Old 05 Dec 2008, 08:15   #4 (permalink)
Cal
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Agreed with LCRmyr

You're Right, first impressions of the codex aren't overwhelming. Your infantry have guns that have no AP whatsoever and all your guys have 5+ armour saves and a weak stat line (unless you buff with doctrines).
However, there are two things that most people will agree are the strengths of the Imperial Guard, tanks and your heavy weaponry (and special weaponry). The Leman Russ is an extremely useful unit, as is the demolisher (just ask Tom ) and there's plenty more awesome tanks if you use FW rules. Also the ability to take masses of Heavy Bolters, Lascannons, Missile Launchers and Autocannons can really show the wrath of the IG. They can take one in every squad, plus more in HQ support squads, and then more again in Heavy Weapon Platoons if you need. Also each squad can take a special weapon like a flamer, plasma, grenade launcher or meltagun. All these things combined give IG a fearsome output of fire.

Those standard troopers that didn't look so great before now look a whole lot deadlier rapid firing their lasguns and pouring heavy bolter and grenade launcher shots to devestate hordes, or devestating those marines with autocannon and plasma gun.

If the standard gun line doesn't appeal, then Saracen has a good point, there are many different styles. Drop Troops and Mechanised being some of the most common, but there's also variations like Siege Armies (like the Death Korps of Krieg) where the enemy is overwhelmed in an infantry charge rushing forward under cover of artillery. The IG have the capability to adapt to whatever battle style you prefer. Artillery, tanks, cavalry, commandoes/storm troopers, lovable brutes/ogryns, the IG have some of the most variation in their list.

Generally, IG are a great realistic army, your common man thrown against the horrors of the universe. Individually they'll fall, but working with their comrades, they're more than a match for anything the universe can throw against them.
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 08:29   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Hmm.. well that does make it sound alot more interesting . Its good to hear because I love the look and theme of the IG.. but since i never understood how to play them, ive never considered them for my "first army".

I was mostly interested in the Harkoni Warhawks at first...I think that is what they were called.. I dont have any IG codecii to look at right now, so I cant say for sure.. but they wore armor similar to the Cadians (which look great but are pretty common i think)... but I read in a thread on here that there are no miniatures for them, and you have to convert them all yourself. Sounds a bit difficult for a first timer.

The Death Korps of Krieg.. with the artillery and infantry charge.. sounds pretty cool too. I think I lean more towards the Elite based army..cause I LOVE the minatures for Stormtroopers and Kasarkin.. but im not sure how you would base an entire army around non-scoring elite troops... especially when everything is so flimsy.

I dunno.. I may have to go ahead and go buy the codex so that I can start asking questions.. i know I was really confused on how the troop selections worked when I read the codex before. There were platoons and guardsmen and conscripts...and none of it seemed to be spelled out very clearly to me.

Ahh well..not much I can do till i have the Codex. Though.. again.. another thing holding me back is I know that a 5th edition update for IG is just around the corner.

*sigh*.. well im gonna do as much research as i can on them for now. I really appreciate the info yall have given me so far. If anyone has any other advice/insight..it would be very welcome. Im gonna look around for some army lists/tacticas/battle reports..and see if i can get a better feel for how the IG work.

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Old 05 Dec 2008, 10:33   #6 (permalink)
Cal
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Bare with me, long post, but I've tried to answer each of your main points...

The Harakoni Warhawks are pretty interesting. They're a Drop Troop regiment (so they all deep strike and don't contain vehicles other than Sentinels which can also be deep struck), but with the aditional twist of Carapace Armour. This nifty upgrade can be quite expensive to apply but upgrades your armour save from a 5+ to a 4+ which might be helpful when you're facign a torrent of return fire. Drop Troops generally take as many special weapons as they can and drop down to unload rapid fire on their targets in a devestating blow.
As for modelling them, they appear to use Cadian armour with extra plating. Really all that would require is a bit of greenstuff on the knees, thighs and groin etc. which makes them look rather like Storm troopers. Standard Cadian heads can be used, or some other companies do some nice ones as well IIRC.

The Death Korps of Krieg are a Forgeworld army and are really expensive. Their troops are pretty basic but all have Hardened Fighters which increases their WS by 1. They play like a WW1 trench army, individual troops are worthless for the greater outcome. Masses of infantry charging towards the enemy supported by devestating artillery. Actually quite enjoyable. A typical force would consist of Infantry Platoon (see below), supported by devestating artillery like Heavy Mortars and Basilisks.
However, DKoK aren't the only siege regiment. Feel free to use standard Cadians or Catachans if they appeal. And also not all DKoK are siege regiments, just the majority.

The other Forgeworld range (besides some Tallarn additions) are the Elysian Drop Troops who are an elite Drop Troop army similar to the Harakoni Warhawks. They have a Forgeworld list with some additional stuff (and restrictions on what they can take). They can also be played with the standard codex, but you'll have to choose your own doctrines. They are supposedly some of the best drop troops in the Imperial Guard. They're also expensive.

You mention liking the elite style armies and the ST models? Well Carapace Armour will get you somethign similar to that elite feel and you can buy up to 3 squads of Storm Troopers as elites choices. However, if that doesn't suit you, there's also a doctrine called Grenadiers. This allows you to take up to 3 Storm Trooper squads as troops choices (in addition to any you might buy as elites). The downside? They can't deep strike or infiltrate. And ST's are still relatively weak (low Toughness and Carapace Armour will only take you so far). Some people get around this by buying them Chimeras.
This way you could get an army with a Command Squad (in Carapace Armour if you want to continue the theme) and 2 squads of Grenadiers plus any extras.

The Platoons are confusing if you haven't had much time to look at them. When you start choosing an Imperial Guard army, you'll notice that they have the ability to take many more troops than other armies with the same FOC. First off for you HQ, you'll take a Command Platoon. This contains your Command Squad (led by your Commander and 4 attendants, plus any advisors like Comissars you decide to buy) and up to 5 additional Support Squads as listed in the Codex. These count as individual squads, but only take up one FO slot (like Sniper Drones for Tau). Then you have your troops, your infantry platoons. An Infantry Platoon consists of a Command Squad and between 2-5 infantry squads. These are all seperate units but only count as one FO slot, so you'll need to take another troop choice to fill the basic requirements. You can either take another Infantry Platoon or a Conscript Squad (20-50 weak guardsmen in ONE squad) or an Armoured Fist Squad (infantry platoon with a Chimera), which both count as a Troops choice and can be chosen once each for every platoon you buy.

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing. If you want to know about anything particular just ask, the others and I are happy to answer any questions you may have. Just as long as it's not about rules. I do advise reading through the codex again though, to see if that answers any of your other questions.
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Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 15:56   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

The easiest and most simple way to sum up the IG...

The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

(Also AC's kick ass)
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 17:01   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Armoured company sucks.

You get a lot less tanks for your points.

Use armoured battlegroup instead. In AC, your HQ tank is 100 points + tank. In AB, it's 4 points + tank. See what I mean?

He's referring to Autocannons. -AC
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 17:11   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Bush
Armoured company sucks.

You get a lot less tanks for your points.

Use armoured battlegroup instead. In AC, your HQ tank is 100 points + tank. In AB, it's 4 points + tank. See what I mean?
And where can the rules for AB be found?
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Old 05 Dec 2008, 17:21   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Newbie player that just doesnt "get" the Imperial Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Bush
Armoured company sucks.

You get a lot less tanks for your points.

Use armoured battlegroup instead. In AC, your HQ tank is 100 points + tank. In AB, it's 4 points + tank. See what I mean?
Autocannons... not armoured company.
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