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Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 01:42   #1 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Hey all, quick preference question here.

Currently I have about 2 squads of 6 Rough Riders in my 1500 point list, with 20 points spare.
Currently they are set up as:
Vet Sergeant with Power Weapon and Hunting Lance
5 Rough Riders with Hunting Lances.

Now, I'm thinking I want to give either a meltagun to each squad or 2 meltabombs each (or I could load one squad...). My reasoning is thus. After the first turn of combat, they will have used their hunting lances, making them rather less dangerous to my opponent. One trick pony if you will. After that they shouldn't be too much of a threat. If they've wiped the opposing squad, then good. Otherwise they'll be stuck and though it's possible that they'll win, there's a fair chance they'll either break or get killed. If they get killed, obviously that's the end. But if they're still there, the enemy probably won't pay much attention to them until more immediate threats have been dealt with, as normally this squad is no longer going to really achieve anything. That's when they slink off and attack a tank. Ok, some commanders will wise up to this plan pretty quickly but I reckon it's worth the 20ish points to give them a little flexibility.
But do I equip them with a meltagun each or 2 meltabombs each?

Meltagun:
Pros
- May be fired on the move and at a little range.
- May be fired whilst charging. This is the main point. Gives them a high str, low ap shot when charging into combat, hopefully frying one of their high value opponents. Can also be used later.
Cons
- Replaces hunting lance.
- Only one shot

Meltabombs:
Pros
- Taken alongside hunting lance
- Can get 2 for the price of one meltagun. Double the chance to bust that tank.
Cons
- Can't be used on anything except tanks.
- Must commit to charging the tank (not a biggy)


So what do you recommend? Personally, I'm leaning towards the meltabombs, because they won't impede the primary point of getting a solid charge and they have twice as much chance of blowing that tank.
Also do you think the tactic will actually work? Or do you think people will be blinded by the fact that they've just lost one of their good units to these guys and will wipe them out (even then, it could be said better them than other elements...)?
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 01:51   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

meltabombs. period.

you can't take meltaguns with hunting lances. The rules state that any model without hunting lances can have meltaguns. But before the special weapons, the hunting lance part says that the squadron can replace either their laspistol or ccw with the hunting lance for +X points.

so hunting lances are all or nothing, and because only model without hunting lances can have special weapons, you can't have meltaguns in the same sqaud as men with hunting lances.

that limits you to the meltabombs.

though if you should take them is another question entirely, and I'll let people that have actually used Rough Riders answer that one.
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 01:58   #3 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Aye I see that now. I also see that it would seem that the whole squad must be equipped with meltabombs... Which makes things rather more annoying. Still, Meltabombs + Hunting Lances. Worth it?
And what are people's takes on a Meltagun and Lasgun/Shotgun squadron?
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 02:18   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
meltabombs. period.

you can't take meltaguns with hunting lances. The rules state that any model without hunting lances can have meltaguns. But before the special weapons, the hunting lance part says that the squadron can replace either their laspistol or ccw with the hunting lance for +X points.

so hunting lances are all or nothing, and because only model without hunting lances can have special weapons, you can't have meltaguns in the same sqaud as men with hunting lances.

that limits you to the meltabombs.

though if you should take them is another question entirely, and I'll let people that have actually used Rough Riders answer that one.
Well you CAN actually have hunting lances with meltaguns, its just that the models with the meltas can't take a hunting lance.
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 02:26   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Melta bombs are far too expensive, they almost double to point cost of the model. I think in a small squad, they detract too much from the charge damage of the hunting lances, but in a large squad are more effective. I'd suggest combining the two squads into one ten man squad with two meltas. This gives the meltas more protection, so there is a better chance they will survive the charge and keep the unit as a threat. This also makes it harder for your opponent to get kill points. One tougher kill point vs. two squishy ones.
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 16:43   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Vimes
Melta bombs are far too expensive, they almost double to point cost of the model. I think in a small squad, they detract too much from the charge damage of the hunting lances, but in a large squad are more effective. I'd suggest combining the two squads into one ten man squad with two meltas. This gives the meltas more protection, so there is a better chance they will survive the charge and keep the unit as a threat. This also makes it harder for your opponent to get kill points. One tougher kill point vs. two squishy ones.
I disagree. Meltabombs increase the cost of the models by 50%; a fair way shy of "nearly double", and detract in no way at all from the charge damage of hunting lances. They're a costly investment certainly, but just like Storm Troopers I think they're lent flexibility and enhanced utility by the addition of Meltabombs.

I do agree with Vimes in regards to amalgamating the squads though. Given that you haven't the points to arm both units with meltabombs, I say drop a model from each and join them together, then add meltabombs.
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 21:48   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

I say, comprimise.
Here's my argument: I've only just started using rough riders (converted from the chaos marauder sprue)
1st game: 5 rough riders, 4 with hunting lances, SGT power weapon, meltagun, the rough riders charged, managed to kill their target, a combat squad, though only barely, then moved on shot and missed a rhino then got killed... :'(
Second game: 5 rough riders, 5 with hunting lances, SGT with pwr weapon, all with meltabombs. This unit moved around the flank, charged a cobat squad, killed them, than moved on and charged a land raider, destoying it! (the resulting explosion killed 2 rough riders)

Anyway here's my comprimise, either group the squads into one big ten man squad, and give them two meltaguns and give the Sgt. meltabombs (right the points you save from the previouse Sgt. not being there you can afford the extra melta bombs)

Or you could just give them melta bombs, which have a longer reach than a melta gun? hun? Yes a rough rider moves and fire's his melta gun as cavalry, 6" then 12" melta range for a total of 18". (that's the ineffective range of a meltagun) Or a rough rider with meltabombs moves 6" fleets d6" then charges 12", effective range 17" to 24" and 2d6 AV penetration....

Long story short, go with the melta bombs. Though in other battles a comprimise could be the order of the day...
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Old 19 Nov 2008, 21:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Typhon brings up a huge point here that I don't think any of us thought of. Not only do the meltabombs havea better effective range, but they have a better chance to hit and better potential to damage. For the points, they're probably a better buy (double the cost of 2 melta guns for 10 melta attacks). Plus, on top of it all, you can still keep a full squad of lances as well, although this could add up to a pretty pricey unit considering their survivability.
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Old 22 Nov 2008, 06:16   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

@Tom: Oops, that math came out wrong. 50% increase not doubling. I knew what I meant in my head.

I think the cost of melta-bombs on Rough riders or Storm Troopers is an inefficient way of tank hunting. If you take the 50 points it would take to upgrade a full squad, then you're halfway to an anti-tank squad, which gives you more bodies, and is a better way of dealing with tanks because they can strike from turn one.
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Old 22 Nov 2008, 09:03   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Meltaguns or Meltabombs for Rough Riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Vimes
I think the cost of melta-bombs on Rough riders or Storm Troopers is an inefficient way of tank hunting. If you take the 50 points it would take to upgrade a full squad, then you're halfway to an anti-tank squad, which gives you more bodies, and is a better way of dealing with tanks because they can strike from turn one.
That's some fairly convoluted logic. Meltabombs aren't worth it because they cost less than half as much as an Anti Tank support squad? Seems a reasonable price to pay to so greatly upgrade a naturally close quarters fighting unit. Even if I can get only a couple meltabombs into charge range of an enemy vehicle, they're still more deadly than a trio of lascannon shots!

Don't get me wrong, Anti Tank squads have their uses certainly, but two or three units down-range with Meltabombs make the centre of the table a vehicle-free zone. I think it's important to note also that there's a good reason Space Marine Assault squads can no longer take meltabombs all-round...it's because it makes them bloody deadly. I think a unit that can deliver a Meltabomb charge potentially up to 24" away is worth being afraid of. And for the record, arming a full squad with Meltabombs costs 40 points, not 50.
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