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Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 10:18   #1 (permalink)
Cal
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Hey guys. I'm finally settled on building my guys as a Siege regiment, based loosely on the DKoK, albeit more elite. So that means no heavy weapons in my infantry squads. I want to ask how I should go about constructing and playing with these type of armies. I mean DKoK use infantry assaults, and I plan to do roughly similar with some covering fire and some vehicles in support (mainly Demolisher, Hellhounds and Sentinels but also an AF). I don't have any IA books, so I don't have access to the extra artillery units. Yet. At the moment I'm just building with the normal codex. The main problem for me is getting enough infantry units (especially for the advance style I intend to play) while still keeping enough support squads to be able to deal with tanks. Any recommendations?

So far in building my list I've come across a dilemma. As a siege regiment, and for their fierceness and determination in combat, I'm buying most of my squads Hardened Fighters. I'd also planned to use Carapace Armour as well. But it starts seeming a little rediculous when you're paying 35 points extra per infantry squad and making them all over the 100 point mark (with vox caster and special weapon). So I want to ask what you think of the Carapace, Hardened Fighters combo, taking into account the close proximity I will be getting to the enemy.
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 11:13   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Carpace Armor is a must as far as im conserned, most armies negate our normal 5+ armor save anyways but a 4+ armor save puts us on par with a tau fire warrior...(armour wise)
As for Hardened fighters, I recomend dropping it for either Die hards or chem inhalers...
Die hards for 5 points means you take no negative moral modifiers in CC...
Chem inhalers for a mandatory 10 per squad (you have to give it to all of your infantry) gives you no negative moral modifiers EVER, and it makes your squads pinned instead of running away if you fail a shooting moral check...
Chem inhalers coupled with a veteran sarg. and the doctrine thats free and so long as all your people are touching one another they get a +1 to leadership and initiative(cant remember the name of it and i dont have my codex handy) makes for a leadership 9 squad that will practicly NEVER run away... >
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 11:41   #3 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Thanks for the reply. But Chem Inhalers and Close Order Drill have absolutely nothing to do with my army theme/background which is the whole point of the doctrines in the first place. And I have heard stuff about Die Hards being pointless with the new rules due to changed leadership, but not having 5th ed rules yet (grr) I can't say whether that's true or not.
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Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
"So kill them back!"
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 12:52   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Actually die hards is useful because for every person you lose a CC round in by you take a leadership test minus however much you lost by
And i thought you were just talking tourney play not your own regiment sorry
The plus one in WS from hardened fighters isn't really worth the points to me though...
Then again i use fodder shields to take CC casualties and then shoot the survivors...
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 13:36   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartSCrazy
Actually die hards is useful because for every person you lose a CC round in by you take a leadership test minus however much you lost by
And i thought you were just talking tourney play not your own regiment sorry
The plus one in WS from hardened fighters isn't really worth the points to me though...
Then again i use fodder shields to take CC casualties and then shoot the survivors...
Well you're right and wrong on the Die Hards issue - You've got the close combat rules right, but I'm afraid you've not fully understood the limitations for the Die Hards doctrine: It doesn't negate all negative modifiers in close combat; it negates negative modifiers for being outnumbered in close combat. Seeing as the 5th edition rules no longer account for such factors in the aftermath of a round of close combat, Die Hards is now officially usless.

NOTE - The -1 Ld modifier for each wound a side loses by is not the same as being outnumbered. Fifteen Hormagaunts might lose a round of close combat to a squad of ten Space Marines yet still outnumber them.
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 13:42   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

No Die hards is completely worthless now. Die hards allows you to ignore outnumbering modifiers. There are no outnumbering mods to LD anymore so it is outdated and worthless.

as for hardened fighters and carapace.

I use that combo quite a lot for my drop troopers and it's actually more effective than you probally realize. Now you got a 50% chance to survive most weapons and MEQs need 4s to hit you. It makes a BIG difference.

and HSOs hit basic MEQs on 3s now give him a powerfist and a commissar with a powerfist and you got a threat there, abit expensive. I use this combo in a drop troops army but they only have to take a single round of shooting first
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 14:19   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

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Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
No Die hards is completely worthless now. Die hards allows you to ignore outnumbering modifiers. There are no outnumbering mods to LD anymore so it is outdated and worthless.
Thanks, Johnnyboy. You could have done me the courtesy of actually reading my post before adding your two cents, but whatever... :
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 14:36   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Ha.

Well to your questions then. Drop carapace, it's useless in my opinion. If you take the carapace doctrine off of three infantry squads, it give you enough points for another basic infantry squad! Numbers are your friend here, not fancy armor. And as already said, Die Hards is useless now.

For support, use your HQ's fire support teams, stick them in cover, and have fun. To further boost your numbers, why not take a couple large units of conscripts?
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 15:15   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

I think carapace armour is a toss-up. Given that you mean to get up close then I think it's probably worthwhile. You're going to have to endure a lot of small arms rapid fire and close combat, so I genuinely think carapace armour will give your troops greater survivability than greater numbers. Let's assume you take two platoons as your troop choices. You can either take two infantry squads in each with special weapons and carapace armour (with a handful of points left over for a couple extra special weapons in the command squads), or three infantry squads in each with special weapons and conventional flak armour. Either way you've got the same number of special weapons, but the carapace option won't evaporate under rapid bolter fire.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 16:06   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Siege Army - advice and CA+HF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
No Die hards is completely worthless now. Die hards allows you to ignore outnumbering modifiers. There are no outnumbering mods to LD anymore so it is outdated and worthless.
Thanks, Johnnyboy. You could have done me the courtesy of actually reading my post before adding your two cents, but whatever... :
sorry Tom, I did read your post but my folks were yelling at me over here. So I just hit post again rather than edit.
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