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Honorifica Imperialis
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 00:45   #1 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Honorifica Imperialis

Hey, just some quick musings here.
Every time I've heard mention of the Honorifica Imperialis used, it's always for upgrading a Junior Officer, a Psyker or Techpriest or such like. What about upgrading a Veteran Sergeant? Ok, down fall is that you lose the Leadership ability for a model with such a good Ld (for Guard). But the upside is, you now find your "officer" in a large useful squad with lots of ablative wounds. There's was a topic ages ago about bodyguards for the Officer.
You could upgrade a Storm Trooper sergeant (though they don't have access to Officer only weapons), or a Hardened Veteran sergeant. They (vets) get 3 special weapons, plus Grenades, an option for Chimera (or otherwise infiltrate) and he can still choose Officer weapons like the Power Fist.
My other thought was to upgrade a Rough Rider Veteran Sergeant. Seeing as this unit is already roughly a CC unit (well not particularly but for Guard...), upgrading the Sergeant gives you a strong model to lead the charge, and upgraded with a hunting lance and power weapon (which is available to RR sergeants) gives him a bit of kick and the ability to hurt something. If you've got access, Carapacing the Rough Riders might also make the unit a bit stronger.

Anyway, I was just thinking about the possibilities of upgrading a sergeant to a HSO (it actually started with me pondering the standard Guard squad). Would either of the above configurations be at all effective (personally, I wouldn't use the ST one)? Or would they just be a waste of points that could be better spent elsewhere?
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 01:57   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
Hey, just some quick musings here.
Every time I've heard mention of the Honorifica Imperialis used, it's always for upgrading a Junior Officer, a Psyker or Techpriest or such like. What about upgrading a Veteran Sergeant? Ok, down fall is that you lose the Leadership ability for a model with such a good Ld (for Guard). But the upside is, you now find your "officer" in a large useful squad with lots of ablative wounds. There's was a topic ages ago about bodyguards for the Officer.
You could upgrade a Storm Trooper sergeant (though they don't have access to Officer only weapons), or a Hardened Veteran sergeant. They (vets) get 3 special weapons, plus Grenades, an option for Chimera (or otherwise infiltrate) and he can still choose Officer weapons like the Power Fist.
My other thought was to upgrade a Rough Rider Veteran Sergeant. Seeing as this unit is already roughly a CC unit (well not particularly but for Guard...), upgrading the Sergeant gives you a strong model to lead the charge, and upgraded with a hunting lance and power weapon (which is available to RR sergeants) gives him a bit of kick and the ability to hurt something. If you've got access, Carapacing the Rough Riders might also make the unit a bit stronger.

Anyway, I was just thinking about the possibilities of upgrading a sergeant to a HSO (it actually started with me pondering the standard Guard squad). Would either of the above configurations be at all effective (personally, I wouldn't use the ST one)? Or would they just be a waste of points that could be better spent elsewhere?
Smart man, you are!

Yeah, most people don't see the true abilities of the Honourifica Imperialis. I've used an army with 30 rough riders, one squad with a H.I with a power weapon and carapace armor, and they smashed through the opposition like you wouldn't believe!

My other ideas were in the veterans with shotguns, as another CC unit.

Imaginations the limit, Cal!
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 13:56   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

I don't know about that one...Special and independent characters are typically defined by the effect they can have on the battlefield. Imperial Guard Officers keep the men from breaking and running in the face of casualties; Phoenix Lords confer cool abilities upon the units to which they are attached; Space Marine Captains just want to hurt everything and can...but what does a Hardened Veteran Sergeant with an Honorifica do? He becomes ever so slightly more likely to land a hit in close combat and he takes a little longer to die. That's it. Is it worth it? Given that Close Combat is where Guardsmen go to die, buffing a rough rider seems pretty pointless because he's going to snuff if no matter what wargear you pour into him.

Bottom line - Multi-wound characters need to do something useful, or be heavily armoured; thereby being able to soak up punishment (which is useful in its own right). Sorry, I like that you're thinking outside the box, but this is just one of those times it's always been done this way for a reason. There is simply no advantage significant enough to warrant bestowing an Honorifica upon a lowly squad sergeant rather than a Junior Officer, Psyker or Techpriest. It's like buying ultra-premium fuel for your Fiesa instead of your BMW.
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Old 25 Oct 2008, 17:24   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

On a standard squad sergeant, I'd be inclined to agree, but a hardened veteran sergeant is hands-down, the best place you can put your honorifica. He gets a nice, big, well armed squad to truck around with him that has a lot of ways to get around, and he still counts as an officer so he has full wargear access. Techpriests are a close second I guess but only if theycan ahve combat servitors (I forget if they can). Sanctioned psykers are a point-sink and it drives me crazy when people put it on a JO. It's 5 points don't be such a tool.

EDIT: Right after I posted I thought of a couple other interesting ideas, not necessarily the best ideas, but standard bearers and medic with HSO statline might not be so bad either. Makes it a lot harder to kill them out of the unit, adds more wounds to said unit and wold work pretty well for those set-ups that use command HQ as counter assault.
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Old 26 Oct 2008, 23:35   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something glaringly obvious here but what's so very useful about a Hardened Veteran with an Honorifica? He already has BS 4, so no ranged weapon he selects from the armoury gains any benefit whatsoever. It gives him only a +1 buff to his Ld, and the likelyhood is his squad will be using an officer's Leadership skill anyway so that's rendered pretty much useless too. +1 Weapon Skill? Is that really anything to write home about?

The only real benefit conferred by an honorifica on a Hardened Veteran is two extra attacks and a couple more hit points. And the best you can get from that is a hidden powerfist with three attacks. They're still Guardsmen though and the fact remains that damn near every other unit out there will trample them in close combat. So what are you going to do with your uber-sergeant? Bust some marines? All this does for him is make it more likely he'll bag more than one before snuffing it himself. It's not worth it. That honorifica is still better used elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 27 Oct 2008, 00:30   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

An honorifica'd hardened veteran squad wit hardened fighters 3 flamers or meltas and shotguns all around is just a solid counter assault unit. 5 power weapon attacks on the charge at I4 and WS5 makes him a solid choice against MEQs after you thin out the squad a bit with your pre-assault shooting.
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Old 27 Oct 2008, 07:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

Wouldn't that only be the case if you take the doctrine, though? While I may like using doctrines, I know that many people do not, and many of those because you've just restricted a good amount of selectable units to give one (or 3) units +1 WS and also giving up one of the few BS 4 units guard has...
While I admit that it sounds decently plausible to me to give the hardened vet sarge the honorifica, I don't think it would fool many people more than once...
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Old 27 Oct 2008, 16:21   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

You don't need to fool anyone... You protect them by hiding them in cover or something until you need them. You don't need to hope and pray that your enemy doesn't recognize them as a threat until it's too late. When I use them, I will straight up say (if I'm feeling cocky :P), "This unit is going to hurt you. A lot." Wouldn't matter anyways. They're hardened veterans, everyone knows they're dangerous.
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Old 27 Oct 2008, 19:41   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
An honorifica'd hardened veteran squad wit hardened fighters 3 flamers or meltas and shotguns all around is just a solid counter assault unit. 5 power weapon attacks on the charge at I4 and WS5 makes him a solid choice against MEQs after you thin out the squad a bit with your pre-assault shooting.
Yeah, you make it sound really impressive, but the vast sum of that hurtiness has nothing to do with the addition of an Honorifica Imperialis anyway!

A non-honorifica'd hardened veteran squad with hardened fighters, three flamers/meltas and shotguns all round is still a solid counter assault unit. Four power weapon attacks on the charge at Initiative 3 and Weapon Skill 5. So where's your fabulous advantage? You've shown me an extra attack and a +1 buff to his initiative (which might actually matter if he weren't striking at Strength 3).

I'm still not convinced that's even worth 25 points, let alone passing up the opportunity to either use it somewhere it'll make a difference to the whole army, or to substantially buff a model that isn't already a serious contender in his own right. The key issue here is not how good a model can be with an Honorifica, but how much better they can be.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 27 Oct 2008, 19:59   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Honorifica Imperialis

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A non-honorifica'd hardened veteran squad with hardened fighters, three flamers/meltas and shotguns all round is still a solid counter assault unit. Four power weapon attacks on the charge at Initiative 3 and Weapon Skill 5. So where's your fabulous advantage? You've shown me an extra attack and a +1 buff to his initiative (which might actually matter if he weren't striking at Strength 3).
I have to agree with you here, also if I want an counter close combat squad ill take Grey Knight Allies...
(point cost isnt mattering in the size of the games ive been playing as of late)
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