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Theming units into an army...? (Storm Troopers and artillery)
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Old 17 Sep 2008, 05:14   #1 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Theming units into an army...? (Storm Troopers and artillery)

Fluff question, did a quick search but didn't see anything, so my sincerest apologies if I'm bringing up old discussions. Although I love Drop Troops, I can't resist the tanks that make the Imperial Guard what it is. So I've been thinking about using a normal mixed force with Storm Troopers Deep Striking.

1) Is there a normal way Storm Troopers would Deep Strike? Rapel/Grave-chute (any others?) or does it just depend on the situation?

2) There's been a lot of discussion centered around it not being fluffy to include Drop Troops and tanks in the same force. How then, would one go about theming Storm Troopers in as well as tanks. It's a usual list set-up, but what reasoning could you use to justify it?
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Old 17 Sep 2008, 08:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deep Striking Storm Troopers (fluff)

You could use deep strike to represent your Storm Troopers bursting from cover and springing an ambush. But to be honest you don't really need to find an excuse to deep strike Storm Troopers in a conventional ground pounding force. Drop Troops and tanks don't mix because in fluff airborne regiments wouldn't be deployed in support of armoured regiments (leastwise not by air). But this sort of thing Storm Troopers do. They're trained from childhood by the Schola Progenium to be fearless instruments of war, and though their lives are worth marginally more than the average guardsmen, they're still traded for victory where it could not otherwise be bought. Storm Troopers are deployed where they can make a difference, so don't shy from deep striking them right into the enemy lines.
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When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 17 Sep 2008, 09:08   #3 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Deep Striking Storm Troopers (fluff)

Thanks Tom! Maybe I should just pm you in future when I have a question.

Wouldn't it be too dangerous for the Storm Troopers to deep strike on the tanks position though? assuming enemy contact has already been made, wouldn't the tanks be blasting through the air the troops would drop through?

and if it's alright for storm troopers, what about other heavily armoured drop troop regiments (harakoni?) that might be trained to drop into enemy formations in a disruption tactic? Like Assault Marines.

Note: I'm not trying to start another drop troops and tanks discussion, it's just a question that occurred to me then that i wanted to know.
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Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
"So kill them back!"
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Old 17 Sep 2008, 16:14   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deep Striking Storm Troopers (fluff)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
Thanks Tom! Maybe I should just pm you in future when I have a question.
Don't do that. I'm not right all the time, so Q&As on the forums allow people to correct me (and vice versa).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
Wouldn't it be too dangerous for the Storm Troopers to deep strike on the tanks position though? assuming enemy contact has already been made, wouldn't the tanks be blasting through the air the troops would drop through?
The sky's a big place and I expect it's hard enough to hit a paratrooper when you're actually aiming for him! Stray shots are unlikely to cause harm. I'd wager the real danger from friendly fire would be if landing amid a crossfire or right inside an artillery impact area, but these dangers are actually represented in game terms by scattering templates and deep-strike mishaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
...and if it's alright for storm troopers, what about other heavily armoured drop troop regiments (harakoni?) that might be trained to drop into enemy formations in a disruption tactic? Like Assault Marines.
It's not really a matter of how much armour they wear. Storm Troopers are heavily indoctrinated in the Imperial creed and raised as elite fighting men who believe in attaining victory for the Imperium at all costs. For them, death is synonymous with failure. Regular Guardsmen however (i.e. Harakoni), are just men. For the most part they've likely had a fairly normal childhood and in many cases actually chose to join the Imperial Guard of their own volition. That's not the profile of a brainwashed killer given over to the Emperor's will, and so dropping such men directly into the line of fire would be less efficient man-for-man than dropping an elite unit of objectively-driven Storm Troopers. Furthermore ten men are much less likely to be hit by friendly fire than an entire regiment. I have no doubt that things could be accomlished with such a foolhardy airborne assault, but it'd be wasteful and would have a massive impact on morale and regimental strength. Better to spend the lives of ten men to accomplish a specific goal than fifty. Try to think of Storm Troopers as a precise surgical instrument, and heavy drop troops as a pair of bolt cutters.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 00:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Deep Striking Storm Troopers (fluff)

I think Tom is correct here (quell surprise), Drop Troop regiments are used less for small scale support, and more for large-scale offenses. Stormtroopers are more the strike team that drop on the objective, infiltrate it, do their work, and get out before the whole freakin' thing goes up in smoke.

Drop Troops are more likely to deploy far behind enemy lines, and begin fighting their way through supply trains and communication lines, where they can wreak havoc and cut the enemy off from their lifeblood, all while the ground-pounders wear them down to nothingness.

Stankov
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 06:26   #6 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Deep Striking Storm Troopers (fluff)

Ok, I understand perfectly now, thanks for the explanation(s)!


While I'm on the topic of fluff justification, can I ask what type of army (if any) would themewise be able to use something like a Basilisk (or some might say more importantly the new Minotaur), that makes sense? I mean actually being able to thematically use the model on the board and not have it stationed way behind your lines. The only things I can come up with are; a force designated with protection of the artillery from an enemy strike, or potentially a siege force that might have the artillery close to the defensive positions (for either longer range, lost ground or a direct shot).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
"So kill them back!"
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 12:59   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Theming units into an army...? (Storm Troopers and artillery)

I think it's the codex itself that says Imperial commanders sometimes employ Basilisks as 'siege guns'. They might be brought forward as direct fire weapons to destroy enemy strong points when a commander has no manner of true siege tank at his disposal. Perhaps this is what you meant by 'direct shot'? Moving on then to the alternative premise - Perhaps you could model a static gun that could be 'commandeered' by your troops? It could be a normal Bassie in all respects except you don't move it. Paint it up in colours other than those of your army, but man it with troops bearing your colours. Won't fit in against all enemies of course, but the Imperium of man is vast and engulfed in perpetual war, so I rather expect there to be one or two abandoned guns out there.

I think you've pretty much nailed all the other premises for fielding heavy artillery though. Are none of these things good enough for you?
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 18 Sep 2008, 13:08   #8 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Theming units into an army...? (Storm Troopers and artillery)

Oh they're good enough, I just wanted to see whether they'd be correct ideas and what other possibilities there were.

The trouble with the Imperial Guard is its so diverse and specific options only fit with specific styles. I'm not good at choosing so currently I have the 4 alternatives of siege infantry, drop troops, mechanised and standard mixed army buzzing around in my head. :

Anyway that's a tangent. Thanks for the theming advise guys! I'll be sure to put it to good use and try to keep my forces strictly themed and charactful (much mroe enjoyable that way as well).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
"So kill them back!"
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Old 19 Sep 2008, 01:16   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Theming units into an army...? (Storm Troopers and artillery)

Good luck with your choice, though I've always loved Seige Infantry.

Heavily armored troops marching below the fully depressed barrels of Earthshaker cannon as all present blast away at heavy enemy fortifications... It's a nice mental image.

Game terms, to avoid being especially cheesy, you may want to use a list that is high in infantry heavy weapons and self-propelled artillery, but low on main battle tanks.

For example, a trio of Basilisks, while certainly not often seen, isn't that unfair in a large game. As much as opponents may gripe, their armor is nothing compared to the front of a Leman Russ, and if they manage to drop behind you...

I would go for plenty of mortars, missile launchers, and autocannons, mixed in with the odd lascannon and heavy bolter. I'm a fan of the afore mentioned mostly because MLs and ACs can take out multiple target types, whilst Heavy Bolters are a little on the weak side, and Lascannon's one shot is all but useless against a horde.

A Command Squad mounted in a Chimera is great for counter-attacking, and carapace armor, while in my opinion not great, will keep with the fluff.

Best of Luck!
Stankov
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Old 19 Sep 2008, 05:01   #10 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Theming units into an army...? (Storm Troopers and artillery)

Thanks Stankov, nice description. For me I think Heavy Bolters just about have to be included due to their machine gun similarity. Though maybe dedicated weapon squads would represent that better (while still not providing a deadly threat/priority to the opponent).
How would a codex Siege list differ to one using the DKoK one? I haven't seen IA, but they seem to have access to a lot more artillery.

I think the best way to overcome this choice is to draw up sample lists and see which I prefer. Would 1500 be a good total to aim for?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
"So kill them back!"
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