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Trench guard
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 10:32   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Trench guard

any one got ideas for a defensive WW1 based Guard army (not models as i dont like SL and im not buying a million quids worth of DKoK)
i mean as in doctrines army lists etc etc?
ohh and a colour scheme would be nice
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 12:01   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Trench guard

Well you could always buy IA5 and use the DKoK siege list while using non-Krieg models.

only downside is you don't have as many doctrine choices, and one of the doctrines that you pay for in your base cost is now practically worthless(Die-Hards)
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 12:55   #3 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Trench guard

Siege of Vraks book would be ideal, but assuming you can't afford that, you'll just have to use the normal codex. If you look in the back (of the codex), there are doctrines for the DKoK which could be easily adapted to any siege list. These incude:
Rough Riders
Iron Discipline
Die-hards
Hardened Fighters
Storm Troops squads
Heavy Weapons platoons

So one 'free'. If you want different doctrines, I can aso see the following working:
Veterans could be used and potentially Independent Comissars (roaming up and down the trenches, keeping soldiers in line) or Grenadiers (if you want a spear head of advanced troops leading the main attack). Restricted troops could include Ogryns (would work well in trench warfare - point em towards the enemy and charge), Special Weapons and Conscripts as well. And possibly Techpriests (maintaining fortifications). It all depends on what feel you want your army to have. Are they bitter, warhardened Vets, elite Grenadiers or hordes of fresh conscripts. Either way you'll be primarily infantry based, with Heavy Weapons and artillery. Mortars would work well themewise, as would Heavy Bolters, flamers and meltaguns (and GLs).


As for colour schemes, I'd go for earthy browns etc. Basically you'll be wanting something that blends into the dirt that your infantry are invariably dug into. And the uniforms will probably be dirty and metal scratched. It provides a great chance to model worn looking equipment.
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 13:57   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Trench guard

In regards to vehicles, I rather think the Chimera is too slow and too lightly armoured to be well suited to make a dash across no man's land. The Death Korps make use of Centaurs which, while possessing even less armour are small, agile and damned fast. Sentinels are also very fragile so might not be well suited to enduring the inevitable weight of fire that would come at them in a dash across open ground, but they are excellent all-terrain vehicles so it's a bit of a judgement call on that one.

Baneblades, Leman Russes and most of their varients probably don't really belong but I do think Hellhounds and Demolishers would certainly fit into an army of that sort on account of their 'siege vehicle' catagorisation (one might expect to encounter bunker complexes in trench warfare). Similarly, Griffon Mortars would suit them (unless we're talking about strictly codex units), and although I don't think a Basilisk belongs on a normal sized table at all, an Earthshaker platform might not be out of place if you've plans on building defensive positions for themed games?
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When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 30 Aug 2008, 00:50   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Trench guard

My theoretical trench guards use Hardened Fighters, Veterans, and Sharpshooters. Die-Hards and Iron Discipline might be nice, as would Heavy Weapons Platoons.

As for colour scheme, I used the IG painter and found out that apparently Graveyard Earth FlakArmour and Kommando Khaki fatigues looked pretty good.
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Old 30 Aug 2008, 05:11   #6 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Trench guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by NottheAverageJoe
As for colour scheme, I used the IG painter and found out that apparently Graveyard Earth FlakArmour and Kommando Khaki fatigues looked pretty good.
Thief! Luckily I'm adding camo to my fatigues.



Yeah, so I'd advise the DKoK doctrines. Otherwise, I'd look at these:
Veterans OR Conscripts - I'd choose one or the other. Do you want your army to reflect Trench Warfare at its base? Hundreds of barely trained soldiers flooding across no-man's land in an attack on the enemy trenches? If so go with Conscripts. Alternatively, if you want your regiment to be experienced in trench warfare, members having fought over many battlefields and gained invaluable experience, go with Vets.
Hardened Fighters - Useful, and fit in with an experienced regiment well. Soldiers trained in the use of knives, bayonets, clubbing etc.
Chem-inhalers - With the large loss of human life these regiments would experience, it's quite possible that you could get something similar to the US forces in Vietnam. ie. Taking drugs to forget the horrors they've experienced and separate themselves from it.
Heavy Weapon platoon - The amount of heavy weapons fire in trench warfare is intense and these are a brilliant way to represent it. Alternatively you could throw them into infantry squads, but then you need to decide what happens when that squad assaults the enemy trenches.

They're the main ones you're going to be looking at. Other possibilities that depend on your army fluff could be: Techpriests, Ogryns, Iron Discipline or Independent Commissars.


I agree with Tom on the case of vehicles. Ideally, Centaurs or even Gorgons would be the best choices. I'm also inclined to take Tom at his word on the Chimera. However, I don't see why you couldn't create a variant that is suited and uses the Chimera stats. Hellhounds and Demolishers are suited (though if you're fighting from trenches, vehicles might become a bit obsolete). I will have to go against Tom on the Basilisk though. If there's any army it fits in (besides the impromptu inductions into armoured columns), it's a siege army. I understand that you don't think it will generally be close enough to the fighting, but when your defences are being assaulted, the Basilisk can be placed at risk. It all depends on what they are aiming at and how close they are to the trench lines, but I think it's quite conceivable that the artillery could be just behind the lines and so at risk (maybe the enemy assault is aimed at taking out the artillery?).


Anyway for your list I believe your looking at mass infantry units. I'd probably take one unit of Vets (more if taking the Vet doctrine) and conscripts (if taking them). Infantry squads will possibly have Heavy Weapons (or be kept lighter for assaults). Heavy Bolters and flamers are ideal (in terms of theme). You might also take a Heavy Weapon platoon (or support squads) - a mortar squad would suit the army, and the Basilisk is up to your view of whether you have the artillery anywhere near your defensive positions. If taking vehicles, the Hellhound and Demolisher are good choices. The Sentinel is fragile, but is good in rough terrain, and it's immunity to lasgun fire means it could be used in support if given cover and the use of heavier vehicles to draw off the heavy weapons fire.

If you can get access to the Siege of Vraks rules, the DKoK have access to a lot more artillery and trench warfare weaponry. Even just having a look at the options available to them on the FW site might give you a few ideas.

Anyway, best of luck, and I hope you found something useful in that post.
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Old 30 Aug 2008, 09:24   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Trench guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
Die-hards - Although there are probably better options, this would fit the fluff of an experienced regiment well. Prepared to dig in and hold off the enemy.
As pointed out by Johnnyboy once already, Die-Hards is completely obsolete in 5th edition. Doctrines are supposed to represent regimental fluff in gaming terms, and if Die-Hards now does nothing at all then it fails in that respect.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 30 Aug 2008, 09:35   #8 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Trench guard

Oh, so it doesn't have any effect on combats anymore? I just thought that it would prevent the reduction in leadership values etc. that a squad takes when outnumbered (or whatever - i just thought there were some leadership penalties that resulted in them taking more wounds). I don't have the new rulebook though, so I may be completly off.
Anyway, in that case I'll edit it out.
"We keep it hidden. We take it out and never speak of it again. Nobody knows it was there do they?"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comissar Gaunt to an unknown Fortis Binary trooper
"Hold Fast!"
"They're killing us!"
"So kill them back!"
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Old 30 Aug 2008, 17:45   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Trench guard

if you look closer you'll notice it specifically states that "the squad takes no penlty for being outnumbered in assualt."

you're probally thinking of chem-inhalers where you never take negitive morale modifiers. In the new edition this is probally our best "morale" doctrine... at least until the new codex comes out.
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Old 30 Aug 2008, 19:37   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Trench guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
if you look closer you'll notice it specifically states that "the squad takes no penlty for being outnumbered in assualt."

you're probally thinking of chem-inhalers where you never take negitive morale modifiers. In the new edition this is probally our best "morale" doctrine... at least until the new codex comes out.
Cal, I imagine that's just a lot of noise if you don't have the rulebook, so suffice to say 5th edition does away with morale modifiers for being outnumbered.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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