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An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai
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Old 05 Sep 2008, 14:48   #21 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcius Fisher (Zechs)
anyway back on topic.
i read Zennys report and since im relatavly new to guard, i thought it was really helpful.
thank you zenny ^^
No problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Solar Plexus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcius Fisher (Zechs)
Your argueing about accuracy... in a game of CHANCE?????
?
ok...
Don't get all excited. We're arguing about chances in a game of chance, or phrased differently, about higher and lower accuracy.

Perhaps you haven't noticed yet but some things are indeed more accurate than others, so I'm surprised you make a fuss about it.
To be honest, everyone has their own experience about scatter; good and bad. It all depends on the player. Overall, the Leman Russ will always be our principle tank.
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Old 05 Sep 2008, 18:15   #22 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Solar Plexus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcius Fisher (Zechs)
Your argueing about accuracy... in a game of CHANCE?????
?
ok...
Don't get all excited. We're arguing about chances in a game of chance, or phrased differently, about higher and lower accuracy.

Perhaps you haven't noticed yet but some things are indeed more accurate than others, so I'm surprised you make a fuss about it.
If thats sarcasm im going to be annoyed... ¨¨
I meant like why are you actually mathematicaly calculating a game of chance? heres some maths
Its a 6 sided dice and numbers hit or and lose,
i am just really surprised people are actually going so far to bring in they mathematicle weight to show how accurate a scatter weapon is.
you want accuracy? load the dice
sorry if this is a bit off topic ^^

any way back on topic.
I thought this is useful but im confused as to why you labeled ALL of the IG standard infantry man as BAD?
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Old 06 Sep 2008, 12:42   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcius Fisher (Zechs)
I meant like why are you actually mathematicaly calculating a game of chance? heres some maths
Its a 6 sided dice and numbers hit or and lose,
i am just really surprised people are actually going so far to bring in they mathematicle weight to show how accurate a scatter weapon is.
The laws of probability are all that govern the game. You can play the game on blind luck, but to win with any regularity you need to stack the odds in your favour. Tactics are about matching your strengths to the enemy weaknesses. In layman's terms, that means charging the enemy Devastator squad with rough riders instead of shooting it out with them with an infantry squad. Knowing the odds is the means by which players make tactical decisions. Most players just estimate and use whatever they suppose would be best suited to a given task. Breaking it down mathematically is just doing the same thing but in greater detail. Sometimes it dispells myths or uncovers unrealised potential. Back in fourth edition I didn't realise the assault cannon was such a horrifyingly effective anti-tank weapon until I actually did the maths. Similarly I found that four multiple missile pods on a Vulture were the single most grossly overpriced weapon outfitting in the game. Eight blast templates sounded impressive, but it turned out to be very disappointing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 06 Sep 2008, 17:12   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcius Fisher (Zechs)
any way back on topic.
I thought this is useful but im confused as to why you labeled ALL of the IG standard infantry man as BAD?
Oh, actually this article is to show how the 5th Edition affect units of the Imperial Guard. Infantry Squad it's the single most important unit on the table. By itself, it can bring out devastating firepower unmatched by other Troop units of the other armies.
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Old 06 Sep 2008, 18:06   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

I've been pondering a good use for conscripts, if you max them out on multi-shot heavy weapons, would they be effective anti-aircraft?

After all, their low bs wouldn't be a hinderance, and they could stay in cover where they are safe(r)
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Old 06 Sep 2008, 18:18   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

You're better off using regular Infantry Squads for that. Conscripts are to be used for a war of attrition where your opponent can't kill them fast enough as the Conscripts dig in around the objective and/or charging enemy position and assaulting them to distract them.
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Old 06 Sep 2008, 19:23   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

why are they better?

They cost more but would be about equally effective
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Old 06 Sep 2008, 19:58   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr X
why are they better?

They cost more but would be about equally effective
He's not saying they'd be better at it then conscripts; he said you'd be better off using infantry squads (thereby freeing up the conscripts for a purpose they are better suited to). Resources are finite and the aforementioned roles are mutually exclusive - they can't do both.

Truth be told, infantry heavy weapons aren't the best choice for air defence. They could do it, but they wouldn't be terribly points efficient. A fifty-man conscript platoon with five heavy bolters between them would cost 275 points, but for just 200 points you could field a Hydra (which is more than three times as effective in the prescribed role). Dice rolls aside, there is of course the additional matter of range. 36" doesn't cut it against flyers.

I get where you're coming from, but conscipts are better put to other tasks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 07 Sep 2008, 13:58   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr X
why are they better?

They cost more but would be about equally effective
He's not saying they'd be better at it then conscripts; he said you'd be better off using infantry squads (thereby freeing up the conscripts for a purpose they are better suited to). Resources are finite and the aforementioned roles are mutually exclusive - they can't do both.

Truth be told, infantry heavy weapons aren't the best choice for air defence. They could do it, but they wouldn't be terribly points efficient. A fifty-man conscript platoon with five heavy bolters between them would cost 275 points, but for just 200 points you could field a Hydra (which is more than three times as effective in the prescribed role). Dice rolls aside, there is of course the additional matter of range. 36" doesn't cut it against flyers.

I get where you're coming from, but conscipts are better put to other tasks.
yeah... like dieing for one thing

but seriously i cant understand why you labeled the average joe guardman as bad.
your reason didnt make sense to me :P
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Old 07 Sep 2008, 16:05   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: An Analysis of the Various Units of the Imperial Guard by Colonel Zenai

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcius Fisher (Zechs)
...i cant understand why you labeled the average joe guardman as bad.
your reason didnt make sense to me :P
To be fair, he didn't just say they were 'bad', but I do agree with you that the three reasons he gave were a little weak.
  • Large squad sizes may obscure line of sight to the enemy, but it works both ways. Meat shields are back.
  • Blast templates are indeed more effective against massed infantry squads now, but I think this is offset by the Imperial Guard's own considerable array of blast weapons.
  • The new wound allocation rules don't really have any effect on Guardsmen as wounds typically translate to casualties anyway.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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