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Basilisk vs leman russ
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 22:21   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Basilisk vs leman russ

I've been considering purchasing Basilisks but I'm not quite sure if i should get the 3 leman russ tanks for $90 or the 3 basilisks for the same price. Any advice on which to get or spend my money on a demolisher instead? Also the main terrain i play on is city fight so I'm stuck between the 3

Currently i have around 50 guardsmen, a sentinel, chimera and a Leman Russ BT. i have on order some special weapons coming in too.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 22:27   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

I don't know about the others, but i really like the demolisher cannon on the leman russ. in city fight you can pop around a corner and hit someone with a pie of death. of course the basilisks have indirect fire. But that means it might also hit the very very top of any buildings it scatters to. Maybe 1 of each, play em then figure what you want the second to be.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 22:28   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

Well if it's heavier city then the Bassi. But 36" minimum range hurts on smaller boards.

If it's lighter city than a Demolisher.


But ask Tom, he will tell you which works best as i;m sure he has used all of them at some point.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 23:09   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

I've just got done reading the indirect fire rule and it says that if the middle of the pie plate hits models in cover and/or behind cover then they do not receive a cover save, am i reading that right?
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 23:39   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Togashi Johnathan
I don't know about the others, but i really like the demolisher cannon on the leman russ. in city fight you can pop around a corner and hit someone with a pie of death. of course the basilisks have indirect fire. But that means it might also hit the very very top of any buildings it scatters to. Maybe 1 of each, play em then figure what you want the second to be.
Well I rather think getting one of each is an unworkable proposal given the context of your post, but I do agree with Togashi concerning Demolishers and the problem of overhead cover in city terrain. Slinging shells over buildngs is a nice advantage until your opponent moves into the terrain and/or closer than 36 inches.

In my experience, the Demolisher is actually one of the best tanks available (in the entire game). It may have a short range but thatís only really an inhibiting factor on turn one. After that, itís king of the battlefield. It features superior armour, a primary ordnance weapon that can destroy anything, greater sponson options, and all for a modest price tag! Besides, in city terrain, how often do you get to shoot at targets more than 30" away? Stuff the Basilisks. Leave the Leman Russ at home. Nothing says 'Die heretic' like a trio of siege shells the size of dustbins, and the capacity to merrily flatten entire buildings on a whim.

I fully expect you'll be able to find the Demolisher conversion parts on most 'bitz' sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinser
I've just got done reading the indirect fire rule and it says that if the middle of the pie plate hits models in cover and/or behind cover then they do not receive a cover save, am i reading that right?
Kinda. With conventional direct fire blast weapons the normal rules for cover apply as the shot can hit a sandbag wall or whatever and explode without harming the troops on the other side (although what kind of save if conferred when the blast marker scatters onto troops out of line of sight is unclear, but that's a seperate issue). Indirect fire weapons though are not so inhibited. Overhead cover is described on pages 79 and 85 of the rulebook, but assuming that is not an issue, an explosive shell falling from above can't be blocked by terrain in between the gun and the target. Therefore, in the case of infantry, wherever such a shell lands, that is where the shot is said to originate for the purposes of determining cover saves.

For example, if a battle cannon shell is fired at a group of infantry models sheltering behind a low wall, they'll still get their cover save to represent the chances of the shell hitting the wall (as is most likely) and not one of the infantrymen themselves. In reality, the gunner would most likely target the wall itself anyway in an attempt to kill the guys behind it by way of blasting it into jagged shards of broken masonry. Where the template scatters doesn't necessarily represent the point of impact itself and may instead be an abstract representation of the effects of splintered shell casing (and the aforementioned jagged shards of broken masonry) turned into shrapnel.

Templates from barrage weapons actually represent the point of impact however. So If an earthshaker cannon shell were to be fired indirectly at the same target, the low wall would only serve as protection for the troops if the shell landed on the opposite side to them. If it landed among them the wall would offer no protection at all (in fact, the chances are it would even act as a funnel, ricocheting shrapnel back into them!).

Does that make sense?

Excellent post my good man. -AC
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 23:57   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

thanks! That does make a lot of sense. but for example what if they're in cover like a crater or something that counts as being inside the terrain, i suppose they would receive the cover save then? So Leman Russ demolishers it is then and especially useful against meq's i bet. Thanks tom, john and painkiller for very useful advice. ;D
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Old 19 Aug 2008, 00:01   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

Great post Tom and karma earned .
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Old 19 Aug 2008, 00:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinser
thanks! That does make a lot of sense. but for example what if they're in cover like a crater or something that counts as being inside the terrain, i suppose they would receive the cover save then? So Leman Russ demolishers it is then and especially useful against meq's i bet. Thanks tom, john and painkiller for very useful advice. ;D
Yes, you're right - Models inside (or even partially inside) area terrain are in cover regardless of the direction the shot is coming from, so it doesn't matter whether the centre of the blast marker is inside the crater with the models or even right on top of them, they still get their save. This is to represent the increased chance of diving into cover. In this instance it might represent the troops scrambling out of the crater when a shell or grenade thuds down into the mud with a delayed fuze, or perhaps they just happen to break cover anyway the same moment the shell comes in, thus being saved from the blast which is contained within the crater. Anyway, you're welcome.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 19 Aug 2008, 03:15   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

Well I agree the Demolisher is a solid tank, I don't think its the best one to take 3 of. I know Tom brought up the point about the range not being an issue past turn 1, but thats no entirely true. My biggest problem with the demolisher is that it has a very limited area it can effect on a standard (4x6) table. A russ, as long as it can draw LOS, can launch its plate just about anywhere, A demolisher doesn't quite have that kind of coverage. I typically always take one Demolisher and pick a specific target for it to go after, but I leave my multi-role work to my standard LRBT.
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Old 19 Aug 2008, 03:41   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Basilisk vs leman russ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
Well I agree the Demolisher is a solid tank, I don't think its the best one to take 3 of. I know Tom brought up the point about the range not being an issue past turn 1, but thats no entirely true. My biggest problem with the demolisher is that it has a very limited area it can effect on a standard (4x6) table. A russ, as long as it can draw LOS, can launch its plate just about anywhere, A demolisher doesn't quite have that kind of coverage. I typically always take one Demolisher and pick a specific target for it to go after, but I leave my multi-role work to my standard LRBT.
You're absolutely right; the Demolisher doesn't have the reach to shoot at the opposite flank, and that does give the Leman Russ some flexibility the Demolisher can't match...but three Demolishers rather ensures there's nowhere on the table that can't be furnished with at least one siege shell don't you think?
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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