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Using doctrines for non-human armies?
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 02:26   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Default Using doctrines for non-human armies?

Hey guys, Marc (messyart) gave me a very... awesome idea.

What if I use doctrines, for an army which in all effects, isn't imperial guard?

I'd be using Lizardmen models (Or until I have enough, just proxying lizardmen with my current IG). So skinks would be rratling snipers, for example. The basic infantry would have the +1 WS doctrine, and others that I have not thought of yet.

But is such a thing a good, fun, and reasonable idea?

Any help appreciated, too.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 02:44   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Using doctrines for non-human armies?

Im thinking something like this...

Ogryns- Kroxigors
Ratlings- Skinks
Hardened Fighters- Obvious
Rough Riders- Cold One Riders

Now the last one could be either
Sanctioned Psykers- Skink Mages
or
Carapace Armor- To represent their thick hide

The idea is cool, to model lasguns on them you could use catachan arms I think or you could just use warrior weapons and keep the normal arms.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 10:06   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Using doctrines for non-human armies?

The current IG codex is most certainly flexible enough for this sort of thing. Personally, I really want to make an Imperial Guard army based on Codex: Eldar, but that's a project for another time.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 15:32   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Default Re: Using doctrines for non-human armies?

all i need is warrior weapons. so long as they keep that, i'm fine.

i use the skink blow pipes as laspistols.
i was going to use kroxigor's with massive throwing sticks too...

and i had loads of fluff fitting my lizards in with my then jungle fighter IG.
i had a few different species runnin about. those that lived in the deserts of this feral world had thin membreanous wings to drift down from the rock pillars to jump on prey [had drop troops]
then there were the jungle based ones, they had stronger skinks to deal with all the predators, so they counted as basic IG infantry. otherwise id count them as conscipts. i suppose u could use chameleons for ratlings.

they also used the cold ones as hunting beasts [like kroot hounds] they also managed to find plants to count towards a basilisk . screw it... i'm just gonna find my old fluff an put it all up... there's alot though...
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 16:04   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England- south west
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Default Re: Using doctrines for non-human armies?

i didn't want to have to double post... but my fluff was a bit long...
and don't mind the first sentence, i just didnt want to have to name a load of the planets that may have the lizards, so i just used mine as the main er, homeworld.
and... for those that will say it Homo Lacertilia is the closest Latin name to lizardmen.
hope it's even remotely insightful. oh, and here is a thread i made about this ages ago. note, when i did it, it was ripped. http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=42847.0

Homo Lacertilia

Home world.
The Homo Lacertilia are a race that dwell almost exclusively on Feralis, a death world only equalled in deadliness by Catachan. The inhabitants vary from tribes of almost superhuman size and strength [Often taken as initiates for space marine chapters], small furry creatures that occasionally hunt in packs to man sized reptilians.
The natural fauna and plant life of Feralis have evolved with considerable intelligence, such creatures as the Giant Eagles are possessed with the astounding ability to psychically sense where their prey will run.
Other impressive creature to note are the Tigions, these are enormous Feline beasts, packed with muscle and equipped with teeth as hard as metal. They have learnt to hide in long grasses and often can be found waiting in ambush in trees. They could easily best even the mightiest of space marines in combat.
The Homo Lacertilia is the most notable race on Feralis; these upright Lizards creatures are not usually seen until they are in contact, by then itís usually to late to do anything.

Anatomy of the Homo Lacertilia.
The General Characteristics of the Homo Lacertilia vary by species but the most common feature among them are usually [bar 1 species] that they can survive for long periods of time submerged in water, just about all of them have adapted lungs that siphon the various chemicals from the silt at the base of rivers [usually you will find trace of elements like mercury or various toxic liquids] they can also survive for extended periods without the need to breathe, this helps when stalking large prey that may be spooked by air bubbles. One species however has adapted to a life completely the opposite of this. Another similarity between each species is the ability to blend their hide to camouflage themselves with their surroundings.
The desert dwelling species have evolved with short flaps of thin membrane that attaches to their forearms, knees and the end of their tails. The Lizards of the desert hunt mainly small mammal-like creatures named Wibbles. Occasionally they find large beasts that have strayed from the forests for whatever reasons, the group hunters will then gather together to defeat them.
The desert of Feralis is liberally covered in giant rock pillars and cliffs; these are the preferred homes and shelters of the desert dwellers. They use their Ďwingsí to glide down from their nests to hunt, climbing or rising with the warm updrafts to get back up.
Another thing the desert dwellers have evolved is a thicker hide; this gives them protection from the various larger beasts and the occasional hunting pack of desperately hungry desert Wibbles [of whom are usually solitary hunters].
Another rather frightening variety of Homo Lacertilia is the enormous Carnivore they use as scouts.
The so-called Carnosaurs are at least twice the size of Imperial Sentinel walkers. They have evolved far beyond the possible comprehensions of the Saurians, standing on average at about 20 foot; they usually hunt the much larger beasts that graze in open plains. The height and abilities vary greatly on where they come from, the largest of them usually live in the edges of the forests, and the smallest are found residing in the mountains where the need for size became irrelevant. They are all fast and vicious creatures that the normal Saurians avoid at all cost.
One species of Carnosaur that live in the desert have evolved with much wider toes to avoid slipping into the sand. The only problem they face is the lack of large prey. They have evolved in similar ways to the lizards living there in that they can glide down the warm air currents on large folds of skin, the site of giant flying Carnosaurs unfortunately sent our first exploratory team into extreme shock and they still havenít recovered. We havenít retrieved any pictographs of these creatures but it seems that despite the forces stacked against them they are thriving.
There are smaller versions of the Carnosaur, it seemed they didnít need to evolve into such sizes, the call them the raptors. They have similar anatomy to the Saurians being able to live underwater for small amounts of time, although they have lost the camouflaging ability that the Saurians possess, they are highly adaptable and have evolved differently from region to region, Those that live in the desert have evolved very wide feet to help traverse the tricky sand dunes. Some have even developed a short ranged attack, they have a peculiar gland that develops under their throats at a young age, when the creatures feel threatened they can shoot bile at their enemies at short distances, it has a slight acidic quality that can seer through skin when unprotected.
Some varieties of Skink have also developed with large glands similar to the Raptors, the liquid is usually directed by blowpipes making them fairly accurate at short range. The various plant-life of Feralis also contain various chemicals that, when combined with this bile produces different effects such as spurts of deadly flame or extremely corrosive balls of froth.
Skinks are small creatures that arenít properly developed for combat, despite this, the jungle dwelling ones have fairly good combat abilities, similar to an Imperial guardsman. They can live in water for very long periods of time, they are also good riders who can control Terradons and Carnosaurs, the variety of jungle skink is also somewhat braver than all the others of the species, having to live everyday knowing that they could be the next meal of anything a little bigger than them.
Among many of the species there is a single trait that ties them all together, the males of the Skinks, Saurians and Carnosaurs always have large richly coloured crests, these are obviously used to attract mates but also seem to help distract foes, itís hard enough to tell exactly where they are hiding but the crests often blend in with the multitudes of colourful plant-life on the planet. The colours range from red through to green and the different colours usually flow in stripes or flash up in spots.


Behaviour.

The various species of Homo Lacertilia have much different behaviour patterns; the species shall be listed and explained one by one.

Saurian: The Saurians are powerful predators, intelligent and malicious to all who would impede on their hunting grounds. They are generally the only Homo Lacertilia with the ability to camouflage themselves, although the Skinks that dwell in the jungles sometimes can. They often claim large areas of rock as their nest and travel in all directions to hunt. The most common game is the Tigion, they usually have to hunt in groups of 5-10 to have a chance to take one down but certain individuals have the experience to do it alone. They are occasionally found riding the Raptors, these are used as scouts but are sometimes seen charging headlong into prey with long spears smothered in venom*.

Skink: The most common of Homo Lacertilia are usually timid water dwelling creatures, when their homes are threatened they will gather alongside the Saurians to aid them. They are not bred for fighting but due to their active life style they have a well built muscular structure. They are amongst the only Homo Lacertilia that can ride on the back of a Carnosaur, mostly because they are so light that the beasts donít really notice.
The Skinks that are often found riding the Carnosaurs are a lucky few, often picked out by the beast when young, in battle however they are unruly and very hard to control, many of the riders have learnt to keep a large chunk of rotting flesh to help steer the beasts when they go awry. The weapons mounted on the backs of the Carnosaurs are either bartered from ruined Imperial vehicles or, from the most advanced of the tribes are built with unknown technology, how they understand ways to make their own weapons needs to be understood more in-depth so we have an operative on planet to study them for us.

Carnosaur: These beasts are very predictable when hunting, they usually run in straight lines, it is very hard for them to turn whilst running so if chased, dart of in another direction. One variety however, has developed speed unmatched even by the Raptors, those mentioned that live in the mountains have developed so finely that they can turn on a pin point, these creatures are no-where near as resilient as their larger cousins and can easily fall to heavy bolter fire. The general behaviour shown by the Carnosaurs suggests that they have very limited thoughts, usually restricting sensible decisions, the Skinks that mount these creatures must always try to predict what they will do next to counter them.

Raptor: These creatures are very intelligent; they have developed methods of hunting that no longer requires huge strength and so are very vulnerable to light arms fire. They utilise speed and ambush to catch their prey and if that fails, sure power of will usually wins them food, I have watched an Ogryn sent to guard an outpost have to fight off one of these beasts, it jumped out from the trees and went straight for his neck, luckily he was intelligent enough to move out of the way, his only advantage was his size and strength, only after killing the Raptor did he ever have a chance though. It left grievous wounds in his belly that would have instantly paralysed a normal man, he still hasnít recovered thoughÖ

Stegadons: The Stegadons used by the Homo Lacertilia lead a better life than they would in the wild, due to their undeveloped brain they havenít grasped the concept of strength in numbers, often young babies are left with an inexperienced male and so are usually left alone in the middle of clearings. Itís very rare to find a herd of them and even then, when thereís a sign of trouble they run away in every direction, usually leaving the young to fend for themselves, this occasionally develops abnormal evolutionary chains to spread, the surviving young will learn from the experience and breed this information into another generation, who usually forget it. In battle the deafening screams can be heard for miles as the creatures try hopelessly to graze. Yes even in battle with gunshots and blood, all they want to do is eat.
Truly stupid creatures. The Skinks that ride them often strap large weapons to small platforms built on the sides, sometimes they allow plants to grow on them, usually the kind that shoots. Sometimes they accidentally use man-eaters, who arenít so pleased with their mobile homes and usually eat most of the crew.

Additional: Some tribes of Homo Lacertilia have enslaved or raised huge herbivores that carry the bigger ranged weapons into battle, usually battle cannons taken from wrecks, with their natural ability to learn and understand the Homo Lacertilia usually manage to either get the tanks working again or just strap the weapons to the how-dah, itís very rare to find any tanks that have been repaired because usually the jungle mists destroy the engines but those that can repair them use them to deadly effect during territory wars and when fending off intruders. They are almost exclusively driven by the Skinks due to their relatively small size and cowardly nature, it seems also that the Saurians have a strong sense of honour and so refuse to make use of such cowardly devices.



Weapons and technology.

Some plants can be grown on the gauntlets of the Homo Lacertilia, one such plant can fire acidic balls of pollen over long distances, and there are larger versions of this plant they use like mortars. One deadly plant they use occasionally is only found in areas where the sun can shine, it can store solar energy, when irritated by constant touch it fires an immense beam of light similar to that of the Lascannon.
Some varieties of plant can actually be used in a similar manner to machine guns, when irritated or threatened they fire a powerful barrage of pointed needles over long distances, they have AP values very close to Autocannons. Different species of this plant have different needles and different ways to shoot them.
Possibly the strangest of all the jungle plants is capable of hurling potent shells over huge range, when they hit anything they usually explode with immense force or with a small blast of acid.

One of the many large plants the Homo Lacertilia use has a very long slender shoot protruding from its Ďbodyí and usually a large fleshy pouch full of seedpods. When irritated it fires a seed pod over huge distances [up to 2 miles], the pods are generally round but at one side there is a weird blade, when the pod flies this blade keeps it spinning, helping it to gain momentum. In addition, when the pod hits anything the blade will puncture a special crack zone, this forces the seed pod to erupt showering the surrounding area in sleep inducing chemicals, when substance touches the targets the chemicals also release a powerful hallucinogen, this seems capable of killing even the mighty Adeptus Astartes, it can find ways through even very thick armour, tanks and other vehicles included. Another variety of seedpod just explodes and releases an immensely corrosive acid. The acid is capable of melting through the hull of a Leman Russ like a hot sledge hammer goes through a lump of butter.

All these Plants and more are readily utilised by the Homo Lacertilia.

*The venom used by the various bipeds of Feralis is an extremely potent mix of the saliva of Raptors and the residue taken from the maw of sleeping man-eater plants [one of the few plants on Feralis that can move, funny itís the only one that sleeps]. When combined they form a sticky substance that is impossible to remove from organic skin and that melts armour with ease. This is sometimes smeared over blades to inflict extensive damage.

A rare few tribes have even built their own weapons, they are very rare indeed but have a degree of power unmatched by even those witnessed in the armies of the Tau. One such weapon resembles a prism, it has bands of bronze holding it together, when fired it can turn even Tactical Dreadnought armour into a pool of liquid, truly powerful.
The rarest and easily the most potent discovered as yet is indescribable, it resembles a giant gyroscope, when charged it can fire bolts of empyrean energy that can annihilate even the best-armoured troops and vehicles. It is commonly mounted on the back of large herbivore creatures, huge and thick enough to carry small side armaments for protection.

One unused weapon that was reported was a small pod, we could not find out what use it had but it seems to release a palpable energy wave. Sort of like a transmitter.


Other miscellaneous things to note:
Scouts:
The Homo Lacertilia almost exclusively use the Raptors as mounts for their scouts but some tribes have made use of large flying creatures called Terradons, they give similar advantages but cannot be easily used in jungles, they are usually only used by the Homo Lacertilia living in: mountains, open plains, desert and all over the great ash plains.
The general characteristics of the Terradons are large thin wings, long beaks used to catch swimming prey and smaller mammals living in the open areas and a peculiar echo that scares prey that is hiding in cover. The load they can carry depends on age and size but the average can carry a single skink and his supplies and sometimes a plant with ranged defence forms.

Lone Carnosaurs:
Sometimes the Homo Lacertilia will find Carnosaurs hunting in the plains. They usually try to coax them into traps to drug them and stick them into herds. When these creatures are released they are very docile, often having been put into weird trances by the lead Shamans. While in this state they can be controlled into combat.

The fight challenges:
Many tribes have special fight challenges for when they capture intruders, they usually pit the captives against a small band of Skinks, if they survive they are pitted against a single Saurian, if they survive they are either given pardon and allowed to escape or [depending on the tribe] forced to fight an enraged bull Carnosaur. They donít often survive the fight, of those that do not only are they allowed pardon but are also offered the chance to protect the leaders of the tribe.

Free Carnosaurs:
The plains are always the home for Carnosaurs no-matter how many the Homo Lacertilia catch. They often kill the hunting parties and the Raptor scouts. They are a plague on the tribes and are frequently hunted down.
The hide of the Carnosaur is a much sought after piece of armour.

Carnosaur Sentinels:
For those tribes with the understanding to repair damaged tanks a Carnosaur is a fairly pointless creature, it has pathetic armour compared and canít move as fast, some tribes however have learned that this isnít a bad thing, they take scrap metal from the wrecks and often fabricate armour for the Carnosaurs, this protects them form most forms of light weapon fire, it still provides no protection from Lascannons or missile launchers but it also allows the riders to mount heavy guns, I personally have seen them with bartered heavy flamers and Autocannons, although they may not be the most resilient of creatures, combine incredible strength with solid armour and heavy weaponry and youíve already got one hell of a weapon.

Reptilian transport:
Some versions of the Stegadon have a larger area over their backs, these are occasionally used as transports for large groups of Skinks, they can carry bartered weapons or have plants grown straight onto them, they are very versatile. They can take large amounts of damage before even flinching [due mostly to their incredible stupidity].
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I love looking back to yesterday, to see how we performed.
Then, looking to today, and seeing how we've improved.

Unfortunately, looking back to the things posted here, I realised I can now do much better :3

Here are my step by step tutorials for ease of use
Dreadnought close combat arms
Ig tanks
Ork PowerKlaw
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