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Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 13:56   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

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Originally Posted by Mr X
Furthermore, you may have written your list before deciding the mission, so Tom, do you have to pay for something you may not have any use for just in case?
"Furthermore"? Wargamer was criticising the dawn of war manner of deployment in regards to immobile gun platforms, not supporting their mysterious appearance at the table edge mid-game. :P

Dawn of war represents a clash of patrols that escalates into a major engagement. Static gun platforms represent an established defensive position. The two do not mesh, and so I think it's important that you and your opponent decide in advance if you want the theme to be an attack against a fortified position.

Gun platforms just don't belong in Dawn of War. If bumped by an enemy patrol, you wouldn't call your heavy artillery to be towed into point blank range would you? The closest you can get to a feasible scenario is to represent an ambush in which your flanking elements make contact and the trojans break their line of march to bring the guns into action.

Besides, it's not as though Trojans are worthless in other scenarios. They're only 45 points a piece and can serve as mobile cover. What better? Front armour value 12, or a nigh-impenetrable wall?
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 14:10   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

You use the deepstrike rules, you can imagine that its the opponent discovering their positions or something instead of them being airdropped in.. if its your own game you can do what you like really.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 14:37   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

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Originally Posted by Timjim
You use the deepstrike rules, you can imagine that its the opponent discovering their positions or something instead of them being airdropped in.. if its your own game you can do what you like really.
Yeah, the thought had occurred to me, but they'd have to be really well camouflaged to be invisible from a hundred metres away!
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 18:59   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

Actually, I have a nice idea for a scenario...

Set up your board, and put half a dozen Basilisk Emplacements (or whatever Turret you're using) in the Guard's half of the board. The weapons use all the rules listed in their appropriate entry, but have no crew.

Then you airdrop the crew in. If at any point the Crew move within 2" of a Gun, they may elect to man it; they are removed from play and the gun begins to operate. The crew cannot leave their gun; if the gun is rendered inoperable, it is assumed the crewmen died in the process.

This means there is only a few locations the gun might "turn up", and the enemy can either try and hold out until the gun crew arrive, or sacrifice some of their firepower to destroy the guns before they can be manned, thus either limiting your options or removing them completely.

No-one else can man the guns; the weapons are gene-coded to respond only to designated crews, to prevent the weapons falling into enemy hands. Unfortunately, that means they can't fall into friendly hands either!
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 19:03   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

Hope no one minds if I hijack this, but I played a Dawn of War 2vs2 game last Sunday and I had a question. Units that you want to hold in reserve for deep strike/outflank come on at turn 2+, but everything else arrives in turn 1 as if coming from reserves, no? Because that's how the rulebook makes it sound, but I was told everything arrived on turn 2 onward at the shop.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 19:26   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

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Originally Posted by Sidstyler
Hope no one minds if I hijack this, but I played a Dawn of War 2vs2 game last Sunday and I had a question. Units that you want to hold in reserve for deep strike/outflank come on at turn 2+, but everything else arrives in turn 1 as if coming from reserves, no? Because that's how the rulebook makes it sound, but I was told everything arrived on turn 2 onward at the shop.
No, you got it right. It says so very clearly in the dawn of war scenario description:

Quote:
All units that were not deployed, and were not declared to be in reserve during deployment, must enter the game in the movement phase of their first player turn by moving in from their own table edge, just like units moving in from reserve.
The reference to reserves here refers only to the manner in which they arrive, not the timing (which is clearly established as the first player turn).
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 20:05   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

Bah, I knew it. I tried to say otherwise, but when one of your players has been playing since Rogue Trader days it's a little hard to convince him he's wrong, I suppose. :P
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Originally Posted by Redbeard
Knowing the rules is not WAAC. Bringing tough lists is not WAAC. Acting within the scope of the rules is not WAAC.
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Old 13 Aug 2008, 21:01   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

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Originally Posted by Sidstyler
Bah, I knew it. I tried to say otherwise, but when one of your players has been playing since Rogue Trader days it's a little hard to convince him he's wrong, I suppose. :P
You've just got to know where you can point at it in the rulebook. 5th edition seems well written to me and there is very little ambiguity. A lot of people are finding it difficult to adapt to the new rules because they've spent so long memorising 4th edition that they're just not noticing the differences; they're just kind of filtering them out. :-\
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 17:14   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

I'd just say to plonk it down touching the table edge. May not make a huge amount of sense, but it's a bit of a compromise between letting gun platforms mysteriously teleport into position complete with crew, and not allowing the guard player to use their carefully scratch built (or FW) gun platform.
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Old 14 Aug 2008, 21:50   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Non-mobile weapons in "Dawn of War" scenario

It sort of deep strikes i would say.
Think of it as the earthshaker is camoflauged and the crew are not by their stations so don't fire until they "arrive" from reserve (or their shed). The deep-strike shows that the enemy don't know where the gun is.
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