Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list
Reply
Old 11 Aug 2008, 08:13   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 66
Default 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Hello all,

I've got a few generic questions, as I try to lock down my 1000 IG army list. Hopefully I'll get my answers.

I picked up the Apocalypse IG copmany set, and coupled with my older IG stuff I have lots of options troop wise. I've slowly been building and painting, but have enough now for around 800 odd points of troops. My IG army is going to be the 24th MEU (Moraxian Expeditionary Unit), and loosely based on USMC troops. I've been painting desert colored uniforms (Khaki, brown), with some digital-style camo for my Recon (hardened veterans). I plan to run a static gun-line anchored by a Russ or two and infantry, with some mobile elements to push forward and take objectives. Anyway, now to the questions!

1) Enginseers. In the 5th ED FAQ it says that servitors no longer count towards the 50 points wargear. I could potentially take a group of:
  • 1 Enginseer
  • 2 Tech servitors (for ablative and + to fixing tanks)
  • 1 gun servitor with heavy bolter, and 1 gun servitor with plasma cannon

This adds additional firepower to the gun line, gives me two low cost wounds, the chance to fix my static Russ, and BS 4 delivery systems for the heavy bolter and plasma. It would come in around 135 points. I could do this a second time if I wanted, and add more firepower via additional heavy bolters or plasma/multi melta.

2) I started modelling a combat engineer squad. It's a special weapons squad with a demolition charge. My concern is that with only 6 squad members, and enemies not needing to do target priority, do you think I'll be able to deliver the "goods", or will this squad take too much heat? I guess I could throw them in a chimera, but that doesn't seem like a good use of points.

3) Do I have to first buy a vox caster, and then also a master vox for my command HQ ?

4) Why aren't people putting special weapons into their platoon HQs? I've been looking at the army lists and don't see them there...

5) I like the idea of indirect fire via mortar teams. I'm thinking of adding a mortar to my command HQ squad, and then attaching two mortar teams. That would be 7 shots a turn. Should I use the points on mortars, or just get a basilisk?

6) I've got... lots of infantry. What do you believe is the optimum number of platoons per platoon HQ? I'm thinking 3 or 4, to maximize troops and cut down on platoon HQs I'd have to buy.

7) Ogryns, I like them. Just had to say that as I want to add them to my list as a counter attack/objective grabber. I know they're not troops, but they'll help out the guardsmen during the advance. Should I put them in a chimera?

Anyway, thanks for the input. It's been a lot harder actually sitting down with the codex. I've been playing games with a friend just throwing our troops together, but nows the time to get the goods in gear. I'll post some pics some time soon as well.
bc99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Aug 2008, 08:45   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the Midnight Ocean
Posts: 26,404
Send a message via MSN to Wargamer
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Right, let's see...

2) These guys are tricky. I typically stick them in the best Cover I can find out in front of my army, using them as bait to draw in the opposition. It's difficult to pull off, but when it works it can really hurt!

3) No. Vox Caster and Master Vox are two separate pieces of equipment.

4) From my own point of view, I don't want my Officers anywhere near the enemy! 5 Guardsmen have the life expectancy of a snowman in Bagdad, so it's better to give them a Heavy weapon and stick them as far back as you can. I'm guessing other players agree with me.

5) The Basilisk is a waste of points unless you are playing on a massive (8'x6' min) board. Generally speaking, however, normal Mortars won't be that good unless you're playing Horde armies; I would always suggest the Griffin Mortar myself due to its excellent combination of range, damage, blast radius and cost.

6) I always aim for 3-4 Guardsmen Squads in a Platoon. Less than that, and you're wasting points on lots of JOs. That said, the traditional "penalty" for taking big Platoons was that you lose your strategic edge by having to deploy 1/3rd of your army as a single Troop entry. However, with 5th Edition this no-longer applies, so I think the time has come to encourage maxing out your Platoons!

7) Yes.
__________________
Farewell, Kangaroo Joe, you shall not be forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
Wargamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Aug 2008, 13:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Some random location with internet capalbilitys
Posts: 1,542
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

2) I think he's asking about the points here Wargamer. In a way Wargamer is right though a Vox-caster and master-vox is seperate equipment. But as for the question you're asking(I think) is yes.

you have to pay the points for a vox caster, then pay the cost of the master vox to upgrade the vox to a master vox. Only one guy carries it so it is not buying a vox and buying a master-vox both for the same squad but an upgrade for the original vox-caster. So (guardsman to carry) + (cost of vox) + (cost of master vox) = guardsman with a master vox set.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Bush
"Get a codex. Read it. Read it again."
-Better advise has never been spoken. It answers most rules questions we are forced to answer.
Johnnyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Aug 2008, 15:08   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
2) I think he's asking about the points here Wargamer. In a way Wargamer is right though a Vox-caster and master-vox is seperate equipment. But as for the question you're asking(I think) is yes.

you have to pay the points for a vox caster, then pay the cost of the master vox to upgrade the vox to a master vox. Only one guy carries it so it is not buying a vox and buying a master-vox both for the same squad but an upgrade for the original vox-caster. So (guardsman to carry) + (cost of vox) + (cost of master vox) = guardsman with a master vox set.
This is correct; the command squad unit entry says "...the vox-caster may be further upgraded to a master vox for +X points."

[hr]

I disagree with Wargamer on the point of special weapons in platoon command squads. If using a master vox in the HQ command squad, then I'll certainly want to keep them out of harm's way, but either way I like to keep my platoon command squads close to the infantry squads. If using an HQ-based vox network then my platoon command squads are as expendible as my infantry squads, so why not give them a special weapon or two? If not using a vox network and instead relying on the 'leadership' skill, then I'll want to keep my platoon command squads close to my infantry squads. I'm an Elysian player, so heavy weapons aren't actually an option for me in infantry platoons, so my infantry squads must get close. That being so, my platoon command squads are going to be close to the enemy too, so they might as well carry a special weapon or two. Obviously this doesn't apply for static gun line armies, but seeing as you're asking about special weapons, I can only assume you have movement planned for your infantry platoons.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
Tom Norman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 Aug 2008, 15:08   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,246
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

You pay 25 points to give a guardsman in your command squad a Master Vox set. 5 points to upgrade him to a basic vox set, and another 20 to give him the master vox. Hope that clarifies.

I would advise against use enginseers. They are generally frowned upon. For 135 points, you get two heavy weapons and four wounds. But for the same amount of points you could take two infantry squads each with a heavy weapon. Enginseers just aren't very useful. Tanks don't need to be babysitted as much due to the new 5th edition rules, while infantry squads become more useful, critical for taking and holding objectives.

You've got a lot of good advice here from other members too, hope we help you.
__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
-Will Durant
Aftercresent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 Aug 2008, 08:20   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 755
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Quote:
Originally Posted by AfterCresent
For 135 points, you get two heavy weapons and four wounds. But for the same amount of points you could take two infantry squads each with a heavy weapon.
Unless there is another heavy weapon which I don't know about, I think it would be better to say 2 squads, one with a heavy weapon for less.

[hr]

I feel differently about the tech priest enginseers, but then again, I would say that AfterCresent would know a lot more about Imps then I would.

Gun servitors are one of the two places imps can get plasma cannons, and the other is a tank. True, it does cost one heck of a lot, but a large blast, space marine killer is quite useful.

Having a Honorifica imperialis on a tech priest is (so I have been told) a good option, if a bit of a bullet magnet. This is pretty much the closest you can get to a decent CC weapon, even though again it costs a lot. You can add it to other squads, and with 5th edition rules, (I don't have them, so correct me if I'm wrong) they last longer and CC as well. On the other hand, combat servitors and tech priest are a decent counter charge unit, x power fist attacks plus the tech's power weapon attacks.

I would agree with AfterCresent about the tanks not needing to be babysat though.
__________________

Darth_Riah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 Aug 2008, 11:13   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Riah
Gun servitors are one of the two places imps can get plasma cannons, and the other is a tank. True, it does cost one heck of a lot, but a large blast, space marine killer is quite useful.
If plasma cannons really were large blast weapons then I'd be inclined to agree with you, but I hate to break this to you: they're not. :-\

Even with the new template rules I think the value of plasma cannons is dubious. I'm more likely to take them now than I would have in 4th edition, but they're still extraordinarily expensive (which is a particular concern in a small unit) and are subject to the 'gets hot' rule. The main problem is that the sort of enemies you might use a plasma cannon against typically have a low model count and are very often spread out to minimise loses to template weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Riah
Having a Honorifica imperialis on a tech priest is (so I have been told) a good option, if a bit of a bullet magnet. This is pretty much the closest you can get to a decent CC weapon, even though again it costs a lot. You can add it to other squads, and with 5th edition rules, (I don't have them, so correct me if I'm wrong) they last longer and CC as well. On the other hand, combat servitors and tech priest are a decent counter charge unit, x power fist attacks plus the tech's power weapon attacks.
I don't follow you here. An Honorifica Imperialis is not a close combat weapon, nor can it be 'added to other squads'. Are you possibly getting it mixed up with something else? It can certainly enhance an Enginseer's close combat performance by giving him beter stat line though.

Regarding the note about 5th edition however, some might argue that Techpriests are now more vulnerable than they used to be. They're only considered independent characters when they're unaccompanied by a retinue, so they can't be singled out from their servitor aides in close combat. Wounds are assigned before saves are made in 5th edition though, and a small unit like a Techpriest and his servitors is likely to receive more wounds than it has models, thus forcing the Techpriest to make his own personal saves. On the plus side however, majority saves are no longer considered. Is that what you meant?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
Tom Norman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 Aug 2008, 12:51   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Some random location with internet capalbilitys
Posts: 1,542
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

When he says CC weapon, I don't think he mean's it in a literal way. More like refering to the tech priest as a CC weapon. And by add if to other squads I beleave he's refering to the tech priest himself again.

I think Riah accidentally kept saying 'it' instead of 'him' when refering to the tech priest.

Giving the tech priest the honorifica, would give him some nice attacks but I'd rather give my army other stuff. The Tech priest with CC serviters arn't that decent of a counter charge unit. A full streagth squad will get 4 power weapon attacks, and 5 power fist attacks(5 and 6 on the charge) but they most likly won't get to combat, their saves arn't that great and they'll die pretty quickly. I guess you can attach the priest to a CC command squad (HSO, commissar, priest) but a psyker with the honorifica and force weapon would probally be better, and actually 8 points cheaper.

if you just like the tech priest take him but take him by his self and put him in a squad where he can get into melee(if you give him the honorifa) or put him in a squad with 4 shooty servitors(4 HB has a lot of dakka, but with only one plasma cannon it doesn't make it as good against hordes so you'd have to choose, to use the plasma cannon to most effect or the heavy bolter) and hide them in a building.

all in all though I think their are better uses for the points you spend on a rather expensive squad that is so fragile, but if you really like the models and the fluff take em.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Bush
"Get a codex. Read it. Read it again."
-Better advise has never been spoken. It answers most rules questions we are forced to answer.
Johnnyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 Aug 2008, 15:44   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hertford, UK
Posts: 5,086
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
When he says CC weapon, I don't think he mean's it in a literal way. More like refering to the tech priest as a CC weapon. And by add if to other squads I beleave he's refering to the tech priest himself again.

I think Riah accidentally kept saying 'it' instead of 'him' when refering to the tech priest.
Gotcha. Cheers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
Tom Norman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 Aug 2008, 16:22   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 66
Default Re: 5th ED questions, finalizing my IG list

Well I know the old saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it". That's how I feel to most "lists" made by 40K players. I know I could have spent the points in a better way, unfortunately I just think the damn Enginseers and their mindless thralls are so darn cool. I may rethink the plasma cannon option, as 35 points is a lot. However, I'll probably paint up an enginseer and his retinue for fun, and plop it down if points permit, or we play a campaign, or whatever willing.

Thanks for all of the good input, this is helping. I'll get a list or two up this weekend for the board's feedback.
bc99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A few questions about the army list feature majonga Tau Online Comments/Suggestions 7 07 May 2010 16:06
An Introduction, a List and some Questions pettsy Dark Eldar 21 02 Nov 2008 12:36
New to Tau- Army list and questions Sylax Tau 1 18 Oct 2008 03:36
New player with questions on HQs and army list. vsurma Tau 23 03 Dec 2005 08:39
Army questions, but not a list Labes Tau 8 19 Nov 2004 21:02