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Imperial Guard VS Space marines small
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 04:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

Hi there,

In a while I will be, hopefully, entering a 750 point Imperial guard army into a tournament constructed mainly for newbies and people training for GTs. Thing is, the majority of players are often either Imperial guard or space marines.
My question is; what is likely to be included in a small space marine army, how should I counter, and what tactics should I use/look out for?
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 06:08   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

Small marine army? Well this is just what I would take in low points, so don't think of this as a catch-all list. We don't usually do low points where I play, but lists of that size are pretty fun to make.

Tactical squad:Gotta gotta gotta have 'em. Solid troop choice; 3 up save, good shots, and can handle a variety of threats. Much more expensive than most troop choices, but still a good dead for the price.

The danger here is their versatility, durability, and ability to score in fifth. A russ is more than adequate to deal with them, though mass fire can take them down.

Scout squads:Cheaper than tactical squads at the cost of durability, they can still infiltrate(Though if memory serves me right they can't scout, despite the name). They can appear on flanks with some heavy weapons and can take sniper rifles.

The great thing for you about the drop from a 3 up to a 4 up save is your heavy bolters. They go from doing not much to dicing up a good chunk of a squad. Heavy Bolters should handle scouts pretty well, the only thing they chew up more are fire Warriors and Stormtroopers.

Whirlwinds:I love these things so much, but some people don't. In low point games they can be pretty nasty, hiding behind terrain and dropping templates from afar.

They'll be harder to hide with the new Line of Sight rules, but still dangerous. I'm not to sure how to deal with them at the moment, I'll let a more experienced guard general help you there.

Devastators:The only thing more irritating than a heavy weapon hidden in a squad of power armour is four doing the exact same thing. Devs pay for that privilege though, their heavy weapons cost more than a tactical squad's of the same type.

Devs are static, and in low points have a bad habit of min-maxing. This is actually very bad for the marine player, as once he starts taking casualties he'll start pulling out heavy weapons sooner than he'd like. If they choose not to pick up four weapons, Devs are more challenging to take out. Whatever they're packing, consider them a high-priority target. Devastators can be, well, devastating if left unchecked.

Assault Squad:Carrying jump packs, assault squads are the shock troops of the marines.

Assaulting and moving is about all they can do well, in a shooting match they're less than great. Take them out quickly though, if they get to your lines they can be very big trouble.

Chaplain:A very, very popular HQ choice. He's got a 4 up invulnerable save built in, as well as a power weapon. Many players choose to either give him a jump pack to lead an assault squad, that's what I would do at this points level. A termie chaplain is nice, but eats quite a few points.

He's an assault character, a good one. Keep him out of his element and blast him when you can. There's a chance he can save a lucky shot from a strong gun, but it's only a 50/50 chance. Hit him with comething S8 or higher and he'll splat like a bug.

The Assault squad/Jump Chaplain combo is fairly common where I play, since you're guard you have the answer to most hings marine, the Battlecannon. A well placed battlecannon shot into this(highly points heavy)squad will severely cripple, if not outright destroy the squad.

Landraider:Some people like to be jerks. These people bring Landraiders to 750 pts games. Landraiders are essentially rolling gunships, carring many heavy weapons as well as being able to carry troops.

However, they cost a lot. Just one will eat up one third the total points available. If you do run into one, don't expect a whole lot of anything else. Durable as they are, they can be taken out. However if It's a scoring mission, You might not have to. If you can keep it from moving or shooting and simple take the objectives(an army including one at this level will not have much scoring capacity I can assure you)You can probaby win like that. It's only one model, and it can't do everything.

Dreadnaughts:Can be pretty nasty at this points level. Being a walker it can move and fire heavy weapons, the codex allows for up to two. I it's taken in a more assault oriented setup, expect it to be gunning for you lines.

Nothing short of a powerfist can harm these things once they get into combat, but guns can put them down with some effort. If it does get into combat, move other squads away. It will probably kill the squad it grabbed, but will do so very very slowly. Once It's done you can open the guns on it again, it's only as well armoured as a chimera on the front and sides, they aren't too terrible tough until they get stuck in.

Landspeeders:Light skimmer, and fast as all get out. Can be outfitted for both anti-infantry and anti-vehicle roles. On the cheap side points wise.

The keyword here is 'light', Landspeeders can be harmed by everything short of a lasgun. Their key to survival is movement, stun one and the whole squad is stuck or they move on and count one as destroyed. Once they stop moving they loose their save, and can be taken out fairly easily.

Terminators:Used by two people in this points level; the some guys who took the land raider, and Deathwing players. If it is the latter, expect about 16 models on the table. Terminators are highly armoured, well armed heavy infantry. They can move and fire heavy weapons as well as deepstrike.

Like the land raider, Termies eat points like nobody's business. An all termie army will have very few models on the table, though they'll all be tough as a rock. One of the better counters to them is plasma weaponry and the Demolisher Cannon(The battlecannon doesn't quite have the armour penetration). Termies are a bit slow, if the objective in far from their starting position they might not even be able to reach it.

Pedator:Main battle tank, nowhere near as cool as yours. Preds can be outfitted for anti-infantry, anti-armour, or a mixed role. Mixed is the most common I see.

In a straight shooting contest, a 'russ can probably best a pred. The russ has better armour and a very nice main gun. If you don't have a russ then anti-armour weaponry(Autocannon, Missile Launcher, Lascannon)will do in a pinch.

Vindicator:If you see one of these, thank your lucky stars. Your opponent was clearly expecting to be fighting Marines, not guard. It has a Demolisher cannon like your Leman Russ variant, but no other weapons aside from optional storm Bolters.

Vidys are an anti-everything weapon, but with a very short range. Take it out if it gets too close or is squatting on an objective. They're as well armoured as preds, but don't have the range they do. It's possible to ignore it, but I don't suggest doing that, even if it's gun is overkill against guard.

That's all I can think of taking in low points games(or that anyone new would take, anyway). I'm sure other members will help you out, I'll be back later when it's morning here.

Good post! +1 -AC
Fantastic post! Make that +2 -JD
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 20:23   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

750 points of space marines is about 50 basic marines.
If you can kill a squad of 10 marines with 1 battlecannon shot you will win in six turns.
Of course its not that simple but remember that if you can wipe out their troops 2 out of 3 times you will win by using a chimera rush.
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 13:21   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
Landspeeders:Light skimmer, and fast as all get out. Can be outfitted for both anti-infantry and anti-vehicle roles. On the cheap side points wise.

The keyword here is 'light', Landspeeders can be harmed by everything short of a lasgun. Their key to survival is movement, stun one and the whole squad is stuck or they move on and count one as destroyed. Once they stop moving they loose their save, and can be taken out fairly easily.
I must say that's a very good tactica. but I must correct you on the land speeders. Stunning will not stop a squadron.

if a speeder is part of a squadron crew stunned becomes crew shaken. But if a vehicle in a squadron is immoblized it is destroyed(even if the player wouldn't move them)
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 18:45   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
Landspeeders:Light skimmer, and fast as all get out. Can be outfitted for both anti-infantry and anti-vehicle roles. On the cheap side points wise.

The keyword here is 'light', Landspeeders can be harmed by everything short of a lasgun. Their key to survival is movement, stun one and the whole squad is stuck or they move on and count one as destroyed. Once they stop moving they loose their save, and can be taken out fairly easily.
I must say that's a very good tactica. but I must correct you on the land speeders. Stunning will not stop a squadron.

if a speeder is part of a squadron crew stunned becomes crew shaken. But if a vehicle in a squadron is immoblized it is destroyed(even if the player wouldn't move them)
I thought it was good considering I don't actually have the fifth ed. rules yet ;D. Leftovers from another edition still in my head I guess.

I didn't mention immobilization because they're skimmers, immobilized means destroyed for them(Unless that's changed). Either way they're fast and heavily armed(For a vehicle of that size)but not very tough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 06 Aug 2008, 07:20   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

Okay, It seems a lot of money goes on the fact that the battle cannon can take out more than enough. The problem is, and I have had this done to me, is that it is really only plausible to have 1 leman Russ without making a cheesy anti-space marine army. And any old dreadnought with some high power weaponry can at least take the battle cannon out... leaving me with 50 odd strength 3 ap - totling guardsmen

Just wondering, what about Bikes, what Tactics should I expect with anyone using these...


merged the double post. JD
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Old 10 Aug 2008, 09:43   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

bikes? Not very common. But if you do come across them, they are basically a T5 marine. in usually 3-5 man squads. Handel them the same way just quicker as they will get to you if your not careful.
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Old 10 Aug 2008, 17:55   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

The rule is that you shoot the fastest units first. Dump a good amount of firepower on the bikes and get rid of them quickly.
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Old 10 Aug 2008, 18:41   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

At 750 points, there's a lot of stuff you're probably a lot of stuff you're not going to have to worry about, namely, terminators and big fat squads of assault marines and probably heavy armour. At least half of your opponent's army is probably going to be tied up filling compulsory choices. After that you're either going to see the rest filled with either a ton more basic marines or a smaller core of elite troops and armour. In any case, your 2 weapons of choice are going to be missile launchers and plasmaguns. Pack as many of these into your infantry squads as you can. Once you've got a solid backbone of infantry ready to deal with MEQs (and pretty much anything else really) A standard russ should be your next choice. You wont have a whole lot of points left after this core so you can spend the rest however you see fit on wargear or vehicle upgrades. Your basic plan is going to be stand and shoot until there's nothing left.
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Old 18 Aug 2008, 03:46   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Imperial Guard VS Space marines small

I don't know about anyone else, but if I were to play in a 5th turny (i have the rules, but not a lawyer) with marines I'd run 5x5 man tac squads, a 5 man veteran CC squad, a reclusiarch and a vindicator. I'd have 25 basic marines for scoring units. I'd have my S10 pie plate, with a storm bolter and more armor. My rec and vet squad would be able to go toe to toe with most CC units at this level. Especially with the litanies of hate.

Countering that, lots of HBolters and auto cannons? Some snipers in ratlings might actually help out. I don't think marines are immune to pinning or not? I don't know if "And they shall know no fear" directly translates into "fearless". If not, some snipers might be a lot of fun!
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