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Assault Weapon Guard
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Old 29 Jul 2008, 06:20   #1 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Assault Weapon Guard

Not really sure how to word the title, but I'm referring to a Guard army that just takes Special Weapons in the infantry squads, leaving heavy weapons to dedicated squads.

After reading about the DKoK in the other thread, pondering and reading other posts, I've decided that my favourite configuration for my Guard would be "Assault Weapon Guard" or Guard that mainly use special weapons, closing with the enemy to inflict some serious hurt, while under cover fire from other parts of the regiment. I can't get the same artillery as DKoK, but then again, it is something that makes them unique.
I don't like the whole SIGFAH idea, as I like to get more involved into the game instead of sitting back and just rolling to shoot. Maneuvering around, taking risks and counter attacking is much more appealing to me.

"That's nice, but why are you posting this?"
Well besides my general anticipation for this army, I would like some advice. How does one go about creating an army list like this? I figure I really need to take either transports or drop troops to be able to effectively get in close with special weaponry instead of being blown apart while slogging across the field. I do however, still quite like Heavy Weapons, I'm just using them in dedicated platoons, support squads, or in command squads.
Previously I've considered fully Mechanised or fully Drop Troop armies:
Mechanised is alright (besides seeming to cost more than an infantry army), but I do like infantry and seems to limit an army themewise to armoured troop carriers and tanks. Likewise I quite like the risk and unpredictability of Drop Troops but like vehicles and support elements which I don't want to be blown up while they're sitting there waiting for re-enforcements.

So does anyone have any advice on how I should go about constructing such an army? Anyone got experience with assault weapon armies?


P.S. Isn't it frustrating? I had this whole post worked out in my head but at the minute I can't for the life of me remember what I was going to say! :
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Old 29 Jul 2008, 09:37   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

Drop Troops might work Give them some Plasma guns and you will be killing TEQs all the way. The only problem is when you deep-strike in, you can't move unless you run in which you don't get to shoot. And if you stay still in base-to-base contact, you're REALLY vulnerable to templates.

Oh, give those with BS3 plasma guns and BS4 Meltaguns
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Old 29 Jul 2008, 10:06   #3 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

Aye, Drop Troops is a possibility. Although there is a bit of a bad image of DT players going around (cheesy lists or somewhat). But I'm hesitant to go full DT's for the same reason I'm hesitant to go full mechanised. Less variety in troop choices (mostly the same). How would part Drop Troops work? (with heavy, long range support starting on the board) or part mechanised for that (I mean legitimately buying chimeras for squads, although then you have an infantry platoon that has to foot slog... unless you buy chimeras for the command squads and use them for the troops?).

So there's Drop Troops, Mechanised (potentially Light Infantry) and what about combinations (ie. standard lists)?
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Old 29 Jul 2008, 12:39   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

I played like this for a LOOONG time, and while it's not necessarily the most efficient way of playing (unless you use DT) its a lot more fun. You don't really need drop troops or transports. What you do need is a solid backbone of heavy armour (I always went with 3 russes and a hellhound) and some dedicated heavy weapon teams. For the heavy weapon teams, I always used missile launchers, partly because I play with steel legion models so I have tons from my squad boxes, partly because they already came on nice small bases and partly because they draw MUCH less attention than 3 lascannons. In the end though, you're going to want to choose your heavy teams to pick up the slack in whatever role your inf squads aren't adequately performing themselves. Typically though, this ends up being long range anti-tank support.

Weapon selection in your infantry squads i going to come for the most part down to personal choice, although I'd say keep grenade launchers in your officer command squads where you can take 4 and really cause some damage with them. Frag grenades have actually become pretty viable weapons now. In my last game, with 2 bad scatters from a squad of four, I still managed around 14 hits in one turn of shooting.

A squad of veterans is essential for this army as well, and, if you've got points left after you've got a good base of armour and infantry, small stormtrooper squads are a good choice, especially if they're dropping in with a pair of meltas or plasmas where your opponent isn't expecting them.
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Old 29 Jul 2008, 12:55   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

I have no particular advice for playing an army like this, but I just wanted to point out that there's nothing stopping you from playing a siege army. You don't actually have to have Death Korps models to qualify for that army list. In fact you don't even have to use that list to qualify for the units! Every single Imperial Guard unit ever listed in an Imperial Armour book is available to a codex Imperial Guard army - There are no units unique to any 'special' army list. Most army lists feature unit configurations that you can't do with codex IG, or have special rules (like Death Riders), but if you want a battery of Heavy Mortars or Thudd Guns in your IG army, then you can take them. I don't know how effective it might be, but nine quad launchers firing from behind a wall of special weapon armed infantry squads and a trio of Demolishers sounds like a great way to fight to me!
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Old 29 Jul 2008, 14:32   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

just one thing I felt I should point out(in case you didn't notice)

but if you use mechanized all infantry unit's have to have a transport. So you'd need one for the HQ command sqaud, platoon command squad, all platoon squads, and so on. But you'd also need to buy one for every last single one of your heavy weapon teams. That can get expensive.

and you were asking about how you would set up with a DT list. When I use heavy weapon platoons I will deploy them and one platoon with them, then deep strike the rest(except vets and possibly my sentinals, they'll outflank in the new rules)
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Old 30 Jul 2008, 07:45   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

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Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
just one thing I felt I should point out(in case you didn't notice)

but if you use mechanized all infantry unit's have to have a transport. So you'd need one for the HQ command sqaud, platoon command squad, all platoon squads, and so on. But you'd also need to buy one for every last single one of your heavy weapon teams. That can get expensive.
I am aware of this.
It's why I mentioned the limitability of a mechanised army when playing with a strict theme and mentioned the possibility of legitimately buying transports for those who can. And I believe the dedicated transports rule has changed in 5th edition to allow vehicles tot transport other squads?



@ Tom - That's kind of what I'm doing. Taking the overall things I like about DKoK and Elysians etc. and creating a list based on this. Your example sure sounds fun, though I'm not willing to buy the Siege of Vraks book just for the rules of Heavy Mortars, Quad Launchers or whatever other artillery there is. It would seem that a codex IG list is limited to mortars and Basilisks (which I'm considering using, in basilisk, earthshaker platform, or maybe some more portable artillery form).



@ Jordan - So your infantry squads foot slogged towards the enemy under covering fire from heavier elements? How did the list work for you? Which elements were targeted first? Which were least effective?
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Old 01 Aug 2008, 09:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

I play mechanized...my chimeras handle enemy troops while my infantry handle enemy tanks, and my tanks do a bit of both (starting on troops, though. I field 9 chimeras, 3 russes, a HQ command squad, and two platoons with three line squads and a command squad each. The three command squads tote 2-3 meltaguns each, and their chimeras replace their heavy bolters with heavy flamers. The six line squads are equipped with autocannons.

To make yours more assualt-weapon oriented, I'd take meltaguns on the line squads and heavy flamers on all of the transports. Nine heavy flamers would put a hurting on any infantry, not to mention the three pie-plates. 12-15 meltaguns are no joke as anti-MEQ or anti-tank...not to mention the power of massed lasguns rapid-firing. When you surge forward with those nine chimeras, you can't help but get side shots with multilasers, and S6 is adequate versus side armor...not to mention the lascannons on the tanks sniping vehicles if/when the battle cannons get blown off.

But anyway, you can make a viable assaulty mech army with as few as seven chimeras, and you don't need heavy weapons squads if you mount your heavy weapons on the chimeras, and supplement with sentinels. Another nice idea, one that I'm currently converting, is rough riders with a pair of melta guns instead of those homosexual lances. Of course, since those are intended to shoot, not charge, they aren't actually going to move faster than stock infantry : Cavalry really should get the jet pack rule and be allowed to move 6" in the assault phase if not charging. Oh, well, at least they'll look bangin (I'm mounting them on those ogre kingdoms hunting cats)!
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 10:02   #9 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

Thanks for those comments about mechanised!

I do like Chimeras, they have a nice design. My main problem with mechanised though, is fitting in long range support (and i think mechansied costs more for an effective army?)

I'm thinking of taking some heavy weapon squads to bombard the enemy from long range, along with heavy support options of russes and maybe a basilisk (though debatable how much I'd spend on heavier stuff). I'd think I'd take an AF squad for the mobile fire power, as well as Sentinels and Hellhounds. I also have a soft spot for Rough Riders. Veterans are cool, and maybe some STs (Inquisition or DS). However, the main thing nagging at me at the moment is what to do with the infantry platoon. I don't want to go mechanised as I want some infantry elements (like HW teams). So I have three options. Slog it across the board (Light Infantry infiltration could be useful), steal Chimeras from elsewhere (command squads?) or deep strike.

Any suggestions or critiques?

As for SWs, I do like the flamer, but I generally agree that maybe its a little too short ranged. I think Plasma and Melta will be standard with GLs in dedicated command squads and such as suggested.
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 12:56   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Assault Weapon Guard

Sounds to me like you've got your options all figured out - You just need to decide now which you prefer. The three principle methods you just cited for getting your special weapon toting infantry squads within spitting distance of the enemy encompass three distinct flavours of Imperial Guard army: If footslogging, you're going to need a lot of bodies to ensure they reach the ememy in strength enough to make a difference; this is a Death Korps of Krieg style siege army that fights battles by way of hurling wave after wave of men at the enemy. If using Chimeras, whether employing the mechanised doctrine or not, you've got a mechanised army that is few in numbers but not short on light armour support. Finally, if you use deep strike, you have a drop troop army and that is traditionally tied to the idea of well equipped soldiers trained to a high standard. So you have to ask yourself, which theme do you prefer? Which modelling opportunities do you want to pursue?

As an alternative twist to the nature of a deep striking army, you might consider making them Death World veterans or a regiment renowned for their stealth (e.g. Tanith first and only) and using deep strike to represent them emerging from concealment and springing ambushes. This retains the benefits of deep striking as a means to get those special weapons in close, while simultaneously silencing any murmurings of discontent when you deploy heavy tanks and deep striking troops in the same game.

Given your leaning towards special weapons, you might consider the Grenadiers doctrine. Close quarters battle inevitably leads to rapid fire small arms exchanges and close combat - A 4+ save is a good thing to have in both instances, and an extra special weapon slot is no bad thing either. It should go without saying that Veteran squads are a damn fine choice for a special weapons enthusiast too.
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