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A Potentially Stupid Question
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 00:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default A Potentially Stupid Question

Hey folks,

I've been a diehard Sisters player since I started playing 40k. However, lately I've been thinking about starting and Imperial Guard army. I found a concept I liked for an army - the Harkoni Warhawks - but, after reading the Imperial Tactica thread I find that they break two cardinal rules. That being: Caripace Armor and Drop Troops. If I build an army of Warhawks, am I going to "be sent home in a matchbox?"

If so, why? And if not Warharks, could anyone suggest an infantry heavy army?

Thanks in advance!

-Starchilde
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 00:41   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

Don't listen to that thread. You make you own desicions about how you want your army to be.
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 02:08   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

yea, one of the thing that makes warhammer so fun to play is seeing all of the unique armies people come up with.
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 02:56   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

Go ahead! My IG will all have carapace armour for sure! Fluff wize, my IG as always been a heavy armoured IG army so carapace will be one of my doctrine even if other people don't think that way. Wargamer's thread is a nice one but that his point of view. I'm pretty sure you can find some Vet. IG player that swear by carapace armour. So, just analyse the pros and cons and make your own decision. BTW, if you use the Warhawks doctrine, I, IMO, would call them Elysian Drop Troops and if you have the money for it, check the lovely models that Forgeworld made for thge Elysians.

Hope that helps!

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Old 29 Apr 2005, 03:03   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

Well, personally.. I don;t think Carapace is great.. I mean it sure is nice to get a save from bolters... but, at 20 a squad, it adds up quick.
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 04:21   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

Thanks for the information and support everyone. I appreciate it. I always liked the idea of Elysian Drop troops and the Forge World models really got me thinking about it. However, if I do create this army, it will be a completely modded from Cadians and other bits. More than likely I'll come up with fluff for it, select disciplines based on that fluff, then go from there. I really do like the idea of drop troops with carapace armor. I've always been a fan of the British paratroopers in "A Bridge To Far," and more recently "Band of Brothers." I think I'll pick up a box of Cadians over the next couple of weeks and see what I can come up with.

Again, thanks everyone!
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 05:32   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

Forgeworld sells grav chutes so you could think about those.
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 10:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starchilde
Hey folks,

I've been a diehard Sisters player since I started playing 40k.* However, lately I've been thinking about starting and Imperial Guard army.* I found a concept I liked for an army - the Harkoni Warhawks - but, after reading the Imperial Tactica thread I find that they break two cardinal rules.* That being:* Caripace Armor and Drop Troops.* If I build an army of Warhawks, am* I going to "be sent home in a matchbox?"

If so, why?* And if not Warharks, could anyone suggest an infantry heavy army?

Thanks in advance!

-Starchilde
Alright then, let's see if I can help:

The Warhawks are the most hated Guard Army in existence, save possibly Cadians. They are an insult to every single Elysian player in existence, many of which are die-hard Guard fans. Do not play Warhawks. Change the name if nothing else, but calling your army Warhawks is supporting GW's belief that the best Drop Troop force in 40K is unworthy of even a passing mention in the Codex...

Now for Carapace: it doesn't work.

Alright, it works occasionally, but not enough. I've done the math many a time, and I'm not doing it again. Suffice to say, Carapace will save you when the Bolters open fire, but once Ap 4 or more kicks in, you'll be losing more VPs than normal Guard would to Ap 5 of the same Str. Trust me, once that Carapace is negated, it turns seriously ugly.

The major problems of Drop Troopers have largely faded now: the fanboys have all moved on or lost so badly they refuse to admit they ever played Guard. However, Drop Troop armies must be done properly, not just so you can drop your otherwise useless JO squad behind enemy tanks and fire 4 Meltaguns at them. The randomness of Drop Troop armies is also a major threat, and I've whitewashed veteran players because their units arrived haphazardly, landed off board, or on top of my units, wiping them out.

Only two kinds of players use "pure" Drop Troops: Idiots or Die Hard Elysian players. Make sure you know which you are before you buy the models.

As for "Heavy Infantry" armies, I recommend taking lots of Grenadier and/or Stormtrooper squads in Chimeras. An army like that can cause a lot of pain, especially with good tank support.
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 11:40   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

It can work depending on how its used and well i think of all things it would work well with droptroops seeing as you land 24'' behind a pack of marines you will get a save to the bolters.

wargamer says just take more models but this means more of your infantry will die althought the carpase costs more when they die they will live longer vs infantry weapons but somehting like a heavy bolter will chew em up, it would with no carpase aswell but these guys are 8 pts instead of 6 pts.


1 idea would be to take stormtroopers and grenaders that means more special weapons coming down and carpase is free for em. Plus their sarg can get a powerwep and you can attach priests,commissars to greatly benefit the squad.
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 13:49   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Potentially Stupid Question

If your dead cert about the carapace but don't want to pay the points for the squad, just upgrade your key sergeants to vets, give them it from the armoury, or even save it for the characters, I currently have a HSO with carapace, 2 Commissars with carapace and thats it for models with the armour in my Danitun Guard.* As for drop troops, you'll end up paying for it eventually (as they said above, troops dropped onto enemy units, lost off the table, rolled a 1 etc). A single squad of such troops is relatively safe, but an entire army, you've gotta have very sparse terrain to get enough troops to bear against the enemy... Those are just my thoughts though and it's entirely up to you, the guy buying the models!


Btw Priests can chew up points that may be used on another unit of infantry, since you need at least two to get them put in other squads (the 1st one always get put in the Command Sqd as I understand it)
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