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My first Imerpial Guard List
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Old 28 Apr 2005, 22:07   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default My first Imerpial Guard List

Yo, this is my first guard list.* How is it???* Its suppose to be hard hitting, and able to get everywherre at once.* Here it is:

IG Deltagian Army

Total pts.1715

Doctrines
Special Weapon Squads
Heavy Weapons Platoons
Storm Troopers
Grenadiers
Drop Troops

HQ Platoon:271

Command Squad:141

Heroic Senior Officer:91
Refractor Field
Bolt Pistol
Power Weapon

Guardsman w/ Master Vox
Veteran w/ Medic Pack
Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher
Veteran

Special Weapons Squad:65
6 Guardsman
3 Snipers

Special Weapons Squads:65
6 Guardsman
3 Snipers

Elites:556

Storm Trooper Squad:206
10 STs
2 Meltaguns
Meltabombs
Vox-operator
Veteran Sgt w/ Honrifica Imperlius
Deep Strike OR Infiltrate




Storm Trooper Squad:175
10 STs
2 Meltaguns
Vox-operator
Infiltrate or Deep Strike

Storm Trooper Squad:175
Same as above

Troops:489

Grenadier Squad:163
10 Grenadiers
Vox-operator
Meltabombs
2 Grenade Launchers

Grenadier Squad:163
Same as Above

Grenadier Squad:163
Same as above

Heavy Support:399

Heavy Weapons Platoon:399

Command Squad:99

Junior Officer:57
Refractor Field
Bolt Pistol
Close Combat Weapon

3 Guardsman
2 forming a crew for a Lascannon
1 Grenade Launchers
Veteran w/ medic pack

Fire Support Squad:95
3 Autocannons

Anti-tank Support Squad:95
3 Missile Launchers
Anti-tank Support Squad:110
3 Lascannons

Kinda long...so how is it???
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 07:53   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

seems fairly Stormy heavy. Interesting concept and very shooty but good in CC as well

its reasonably balenced but i would take a normal troop squad too even out those points a bit more and maybe tank of some discription
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Old 29 Apr 2005, 10:50   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

Edited your list to clarify the unit entries: Stormtroopers cannot be taken as Troops, only Grenadiers can.

Frankly, I think your army is seriously lacking in survivability. Those three Grenadier squads need to get close, but have no Transports with which to do it (remember, they cannot make use of the Drop Troopers doctrine!).

The Heavy Weapon squads are vulnerable, and easily killed by any half-decent attack (in 4th Edition at least... play 3rd and you're okay).

If your army can't Deep Strike, it loses it's major edge.

Anyway, let's go through one squad at a time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMRCommander
Heroic Senior Officer:91
Refractor Field
Bolt Pistol
Power Weapon
Good set up.

Quote:
Guardsman w/ Master Vox
Veteran w/ Medic Pack
Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher
Veteran
Not sure about this... the Master Vox is better put on a Command Squad that stays at the back, but the squad lacks any kind of Heavy Weapon, making that quite pointless. Either give them a big gun, or gear them more for assault (see my sample SIGAFH list for an example of how an "assaulty" HQ can be put together).

Quote:
Special Weapons Squad:65
6 Guardsman
3 Snipers

Special Weapons Squads:65
6 Guardsman
3 Snipers
No problems here.

Elites:556

Quote:
Storm Trooper Squad:206
10 STs
2 Meltaguns
Meltabombs
Vox-operator
Veteran Sgt w/ Honrifica Imperlius
Deep Strike OR Infiltrate
Why doesn't the Veteran have a Power Weapon? If he's going to have a HSO statline, he may as well make use of it!

Quote:
Storm Trooper Squad:175
10 STs
2 Meltaguns
Vox-operator
Infiltrate or Deep Strike

Storm Trooper Squad:175
Same as above
Good. Personally, I'd have Veteran Sergeants with Power Weapons in there as well, as these squads are going to be engaging close-quarter.

Troops:489

Quote:
Grenadier Squad:163
10 Grenadiers
Vox-operator
Meltabombs
2 Grenade Launchers

Grenadier Squad:163
Same as Above

Grenadier Squad:163
Same as above
These units are screaming for Chimera transports... or Valkyries if you can afford them.

Heavy Support:399

Heavy Weapons Platoon:399

Command Squad:99

Quote:
Junior Officer:57
Refractor Field
Bolt Pistol
Close Combat Weapon
Refractor Field isn't going to help much, as this guy's just an overglorified Veteran Sergeant. Better off spending the points on a Power Weapon, or to buy your HSO a Medallion Crimson.

Quote:
3 Guardsman
2 forming a crew for a Lascannon
1 Grenade Launchers
Veteran w/ medic pack
Good. However, in light of the shooty nature of this squad, give them a Vox, and give the JO a shooty weapon combo (Stormbolter would be best).

Quote:
Fire Support Squad:95
3 Autocannons
Fine.

Quote:
Anti-tank Support Squad:95
3 Missile Launchers
Anti-tank Support Squad:110
3 Lascannons
Fine.
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Old 30 Apr 2005, 08:51   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

I agree largely with Wargamer.

Personally I think that the Special Weapons Squads as a doctrine are a waste of time. If you want snipers go for Ratlings as they are more fitting for the role. Also this army needs to be very mobile particularly your Grenadiers as they lack long-range firepower, so they need to be able to flit around. The bonus to mounting them in Chimeras is that the APC provides not only mobile cover but also two heavy weapons. What you can then do is use the Chimera as a support unit for your Grenadiers.

I realise this doesn't sit well with the Deep Strike Doctrine, but perhaps don't use it? The problem is that of deployment, because as I understand the Drop Troop rule you select units to start in reserve that enter play later in the standard deep strike way, this could result in piece-meal arrival which is perhaps okay for Marines, but not Guardsmen. Also even if the whole army was deployed in a firing line I doubt it could hold up well against hordes, because at the end of the day Hellguns are simply glorified lasguns. The problem, I think, is a lack of bodies, because a few lasguns/hellguns are ineffective against most armies, but a hail of fire yields results. Another problem I feel the army has is hard hitting stuff, Heavy Weapon Platoons are fine, but they will be targetted and easily killed because they are probably the weakest part of your army with only a 5+ save and small numbers, perhaps invest in some kind of armour or Sentinal to act as a bullet magnet or provide some much needed ordinance (I'm talking about Lemans here).

If you really are intent on keeping the Drop Troop thing, which is characterful, perhaps consider some Sentinals.

Well thats all I got... Remember it's only advice and essentially it is up to you. I think what we perhaps have here is fluff versus power, because your army is fluffy, but that weakens it, perhaps strengthening within the fluff is possible.

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Old 30 Apr 2005, 14:57   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

Ok....
The Drop Troops Doctrine says "Imperial Guard Infantry and Sentinals may use deep strike..." That means anything infantry can take it.
Also, the Grenadiers Doctrine only says that they may not use the Infiltrate/Deep Strike rule as if they were storm troopers. Which, means that they cant take it as an upgrade like a Storm Trooper Squad can, but it doesnt mean that they cant Deep Strike at all. It says no where that the Grenadiers cant make use of the Drop Troops doctrine. But this ius my first time using IG, so I relize you may be right...I simply stating what I thought. Until I see that they definitly cant use Drop Troops rule, then I'm gonna hold off on the editing for now. Please explain where it says that Grenadiers cant use Drop Troops Dovtrine.
Also, I really dislike Ratlings. One: I absolutly HATE their model...it's kinda wierd...I think it looks like a circus with those things running around. Also, they don't have good stats. Even a lasgun can kill them on a 3+. When thats happening, you know they aren't gonna last long. I'll will be considering all of your comments, and will be making revisions on my list. Thank you Wargamer and Inquisitor Verwoerd for most comments, and thanks JD for also contributing. And don't worry, I'll consider Sentinals.
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Old 30 Apr 2005, 15:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

SMRCommander:

I think Wargamer is right, I don't think Grenadiers can deep strike because they aren't "Guard Infantry," this is defined on the first doctrines page and I don't recall it including grenadiers. I will check my Codex ASAP and double check for safety.

An all deep striking army is I believe weak. Deep striking means that your units might not all arrive at the same time, therefore your forces would arrive piece-by-piece, which considering that they after all only glorified guardsmen might not be such a good idea. I put forth the ratling ideas because they are superior snipers, but they also have the go to ground rule which ensures cover saves to make them last a bit longer even though they are weak. Also you can get more snipers that way. But if you don't like the models don't take them. Essentially it is your decision all we are trying to do is shed some light on the possible strengths and pitfalls of the list.

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Old 30 Apr 2005, 17:24   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

Just checked the definitiion of "Guard Infantry" and neither Storm Troopers nor Grenadiers are included so therefore Grenadiers cannot deep strike.

SMR if you really want the drop troops theme why not drop the Grenadiers and take a good 'ole platoon, of course then you'd have to take two. The bonus here is that platoons have the option of Heavy Weapons, can never have enough heavy weapons.

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Old 30 Apr 2005, 18:10   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

Alrighty then. Pt to you guys...as i said, im new to IG. But I think im gonna go with inquisiter's suggestion. But that means that I have a Doctrien to get rid of...(Grenadiers). I was thinking of replacing this Doctrine with "Carapace Armor", as this will give my Guardsmen a whole new level of protetion. Is this the way to go? Or not?
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Old 30 Apr 2005, 18:11   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

Generally, taking more troops is better than Carapace. However, if all you need is to survive one turn of Bolter fire, then it could be worth taking.
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Old 30 Apr 2005, 18:25   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: My first Imerpial Guard List

K...ill reflect on that.
Also, should I take full platoons or half?
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