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Armor Compay Question
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 06:47   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Default Armor Compay Question

It seems to me that AC are very or the most complicated unit to play in the imperial guard. Also I am wonder if I should add chimera or 2 to have some infantry support. If I add the chimera(s) what type of infantry should I use karksins/stormtroopers or regular infantry or ogryns.
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 10:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

With a dozens tanks rolling around, there is really no point in taking standard infantry squads as the main reason is to gain their heavy and special weapons. Stormtroopers seem to make more sense, as they are more durable.

Infantry support has always been vital to armored formations, but I don't play armored company, I've only ever seen a few AC battles, so I'm no expert. In the few I have seen though the IG players stormtroopers proved very effective.
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 16:51   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Hate to say is Vallessian, but I disagree with you entirely.

I'm an armoured battlegroup player and while I'm sure infantry support is vital in real life battlegroups, it's just not so on the tabletop. The best armoured companies/battlegroups are those composed entirely of lean heavy armour. The advantage shared by both the armoured company and armoured battlegroup is the number of tanks you can put on the table. The most effective AC/AB army lists make the most of it. Even codex IG can field three tanks and make up the rest with Hellhounds, armoured fist squads and Chimera-borne Storm Troopers/Grenadiers. But a wall of AV14 steel is the backbone the armoured company. In a 1500 point list you should aim to field about eight tanks. Swapping one of these for a Chimera, Hellhound or artillery piece is okay, but diluting your AV14 wall with too many soft vehicles is shooting yourself in the foot and throwing away your key advantage.
The immediate temptation when planning an armoured company is to load up on the best doctrines and any upgrades you think your tanks will benefit from. This is a mistake. Yes, ace gunners, side skirts, AT rounds and all the rest of it will make your tanks more formidable, but not invincible. I pitted my armoured battlegroup against an armoured company not long ago and by the end of deployment my opponentís army looked pathetic by comparison. I had eight tanks to his four. Admittedly, he did have a Basilisk and a Storm Trooper Chimera too, but heíd spent loads of points on upgrades and doctrines, all of which counted for nothing when his tanks started getting knocked out by my superior firepower (superior in the sense that I had much more of it than him).
Not only do more tanks mean more guns, they mean more survivability and the numbers necessary to flank the enemy. If you pour 250 points into a Demolisher, thatís a significant portion of your points resting on a single vehicle. There are a plethora of weapons out there that can do it harm, whether youíve got a forge crafted tank with side skirts, the machine godís blessing, anti-mag coating, reinforced ceramite armour and a lucky rabbitís foot dangling from the muzzle brake, youíre still not indestructible. You are always better off with two lean tanks to face down the enemyís AT weapons than one uber-tank. Even the lowest rolling glancing hit is going to render all those points useless for a turn, so save them for another tank or three.

In my experience, the Demolisher is actually one of the best tanks available. It may have a short range but thatís only really an inhibiting factor on turn one. After that, itís king of the battlefield. It features superior armour, a primary ordnance weapon that can destroy anything, greater sponson options and all for a modest price tag! The next best tank in my opinion is the humble Leman Russ, especially if youíre using the optional ammunition rules from Imperial Armour 1. The flexibility of these tanks and their modest price make them an excellent base for your armoured company, and you could certainly use them exclusively, but it is best to use one or two alternative variants also. The Vanquisher is without a doubt the best tank in the Imperial Guardís arsenal, but it is suitably expensive too. Unless you are fielding a Leman Russ or two with the AT rounds doctrine, it is worth taking a Vanquisher. Be aware that they are fire magnets though. If your opponent is fielding any significant vehicles of his own, then the Vanquisher will be his prime target. This can actually work to your advantage sometimes; my opponents have from time to time been so wrapped up with trying to destroy the Vanquisher, that they havenít paid due attention to the far more menacing Demolisher squadron storming up the flank. The bottom line is that while the Vanquisher may be the bane of enemy vehicles, there is very little that can argue with a trio of S10 ordnance pie plates.
Like any army list, the composition of your battlegroup/company should never be too focused on one type of enemy. A couple squadrons of Vanquishers will make short work of enemy armour, but will easily be overwhelmed by hordes. A legion of Exterminators will obliterate gribblies, but enemy Land Raiders, Monoliths and Russ variants will laugh at them. Most tanks in the armoured battlegroup list have particular strengths. It is important to recognise these strengths and get the right mix to tackle the armies you most often face.

Uh...sorry, guess I kinda went off on one there. Bottom line - adding infantry will weaken your list. Almost every army is equipped primarily for destroying enemy infantry, with anti-tank weapons in support. That being so, the moment your crunchies step out of their Chimera, they'll suddenly have every small arm on the table pointed at them. However, if you want to add them for a splash of character and variety, I wholeheartedly recommend it. I sometimes take my Stormies for that very reason. They inevitably get smeared every game, but sometimes pure tanks is a little boring.
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 21:24   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Thank you very much Tom. So it is ok to have one chimera with a squad stormtroopers to support my armor. Also Tom could possible send AC army list to you to see what you think of it?
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 21:39   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Well I have to bow out to Tom then as he has the experience of playing armored company. Don't listen to me, I'm an Inquisition player now.
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 21:41   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

obviously there is that draw for those new to them, of taking squads of infantry taking meltaguns, they just see it as an easy choice, not quite realising that the right russ costs near the same points but does it's job better.
there will always be varied views here, it's not always what's superior, obviously, if its in your fluff then you'll want it in the army. if you just like having a few men running around, fair enough. it's your amry, take what you want, just try out a few tactics before you ballpark it.

my personal choice stands with Vallessian, maybe because i have over 100 IG models and about 8 tanks. but maybe because hundreds of troops supported by huge tanks and ogryns just looks really cool.

heres a link to were you can dowload the Armoured co' rules
http://uk.games-workshop.com/imperia...ac-armylist/1/

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Old 04 Jun 2008, 11:42   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decidated zur Freiheit!
Thank you very much Tom. So it is ok to have one chimera with a squad stormtroopers to support my armor. Also Tom could possible send AC army list to you to see what you think of it?
By all means PM me your list. It's been ages since I've critiqued an army list.

From a tactical standpoint, Chimera-borne Stormies are a weak link. Basilisk, Griffons and Hellhounds all do something unique that tanks can't and this compensates for their poor armour values so long as you don't take too many of them. But most weapons in an opponent's army just can't hurt vehicles at all, so that makes Stormies instant targets for a fearsome weight of fire as soon as they step out of their Chimera. That might actually be an acceptable drawback if they did something particularly worthwhile that was beyond the capacity of a tank...but frankly, they don't.

But that's just measuring their worth from a battle-winning perspective. I like taking Storm Troopers because they add a certain 'Panzer Grenadier' feel. As the only foot soldiers in the army, they possess an irrefutable special forces status, and when modelling them you can really put the effort in to make them something special and give them obvious clarity of purpose (unless you're using metal models in which case that becomes a little difficult).

The troops themselves are one thing, but their Chimera can also be made to look the badger's nadgers. As the only one on the table, it'll probably benefit from a little extra effort. Below are a couple of mine; the first is a Tactical Air Controller that 'counts-as' a Basilisk, but I put it in there to give you some inspiration in respects to what you can do with the Chimera hull. The second is my Storm Trooper Chimera. As you can see, I've kitted it out in a manner that makes it look like it's equipped to be in the field for long stretches, with consumables and personal kit stowed on the exterior.





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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 04 Jun 2008, 12:01   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Bearing 5th edition in mind, a unit or two of Storm Troopers may be essential it you want to capture any battlefield objectives. You tanks will be able to contest them, but not capture them (unless special provision is made in the Armoured Company unit entries at some point in the future)

AC will pretty much hold its own in any of the other 5th edition scenarios, however.
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Old 04 Jun 2008, 13:56   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Tom, that is a bad@$$ [basilisk?]/chimera, i like the pred turret.
although to snazz up mine i removed the side armour sections and stuck on plasticard sheets, then on one side sculpted a fist holding a sledge hammer from GS. it also has an aerial [the only one in my army] and a wicked main gun [a simple yet sooo soo effective swap of multilaser and stubber end].

as a curiosity, where is the rest of the predator?
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Old 05 Jun 2008, 00:08   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Armor Compay Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc [messyart
link=topic=67391.msg957089#msg957089 date=1212587792]
Tom, that is a bad@$$ [basilisk?]/chimera, i like the pred turret.
although to snazz up mine i removed the side armour sections and stuck on plasticard sheets, then on one side sculpted a fist holding a sledge hammer from GS. it also has an aerial [the only one in my army] and a wicked main gun [a simple yet sooo soo effective swap of multilaser and stubber end].

as a curiosity, where is the rest of the predator?
Hehe...that's a really good question.

Oh, wait, I ordered the turret seperately for the explicit purpose of this conversion. You had me wondering for a moment there...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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