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New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 02:41   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Ok so I currently have 5 Space Marine armies, a Daemonhunters army and a Tau army, however this is my first real foray into Guard, in fact I don't even have the codex yet. Origionally I got some models to use as Inquisitorial Storm Troopers but now I'm considering using them as Inducted Guard and then using that as the basis for a Regiment of Imperial Guard serving the Ordo Malleus. That said I'm sorry in advance if anything I say is extremely ignorant. Now currently I have:

2 Kaskrin Storm Trooper Sergeants
30 Cadian Storm Troopers (3 squads of 10 with 2 Grenade Launchers each)
1 Chimera
1 Baneblade (overkill I know)

I've flipped through the codex before but I'm not sure what I need to get to make that into a working Guard force. I know I need some more Cadians and I'm thinking about getting the Battleforce to add another 40, some Heavy Weapons and a Leman Russ. However I also recall the format of platoons (2-4 Squads and 1 Command Squad) if I recall correctly. SO that means I need to divide some of those squads of Cadians into a couple or three Command Groups with Sergeants (hopefully with more gear than just chainswords) however I'm not sure as to what I need to add model wise.

So for instance could I use one of the Kaskrin Sergeants as an HQ officer, like a Heroic Senior officer? Would the gear fit? Or do I need to buy another model and if so what? The Cadian Command? That seems overkill for such a small force atm. Also which models should I get for the platoon Captains?

What I'm thinking is getting the Battleforce and a blister of Cadian Sergeants (preferably the ones with the power fists if I can find them) and divide that into two platoons of 30, with a command squad of 5 men each + officer, but I'm not sure how to do the command/HQ yet...

Other than that I'm considering the fluff. I'm thinking to have it be a Cadian Regiment inducted into the service of the Ordo Malleus as really cannon fodder, but several platoons survived and actually did well so the Inquisitor (Dante) kept them around on a more permanent basis and had the Regiment reinforced up to several Companies worth again. I'm planning to use the Cadian squad markings and insignia with the I of the Inquisition shown on a particular segment of the armor (helmet perhaps) and paint them in black and dark red fatigues with red armor and black gun casings. For the tanks I'm thinking black/red/grey camo scheme. Does that work?
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 02:49   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
Other than that I'm considering the fluff. I'm thinking to have it be a Cadian Regiment inducted into the service of the Ordo Malleus as really cannon fodder, but several platoons survived and actually did well so the Inquisitor (Dante) kept them around on a more permanent basis and had the Regiment reinforced up to several Companies worth again. I'm planning to use the Cadian squad markings and insignia with the I of the Inquisition shown on a particular segment of the armor (helmet perhaps) and paint them in black and dark red fatigues with red armor and black gun casings. For the tanks I'm thinking black/red/grey camo scheme. Does that work?
Firstly, whoever uses Cadians as cannon fodder is an idiot. There are other regiments that are much better suited to that sort of crap. The Baran Siegemasters come to mind. As for the rest, I could see the Inquisitors trying to borrow a regiment or so of Cadians, seeing as they're experts on killing anything Chaos, but what I'm having a problem with is that this regiment is basically owned by an Inquisitor. I really don't see that happening, seeing as how they're all needed at Cadia. What I could see is an Inquisitor borrowing them for a time, much like Eisenhorn did to the Gudrundites in the first Eisenhorn book.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 03:31   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legio Mortis
Firstly, whoever uses Cadians as cannon fodder is an idiot. There are other regiments that are much better suited to that sort of Klkn. The Baran Siegemasters come to mind. As for the rest, I could see the Inquisitors trying to borrow a regiment or so of Cadians, seeing as they're experts on killing anything Chaos, but what I'm having a problem with is that this regiment is basically owned by an Inquisitor. I really don't see that happening, seeing as how they're all needed at Cadia. What I could see is an Inquisitor borrowing them for a time, much like Eisenhorn did to the Gudrundites in the first Eisenhorn book.
Well Cadians may be hardcore and valuable but ultimately all Guardsmen are cannon fodder in the fight against Daemons. I mean just look what the Inquisition did to the soldiers and citizens who had witnessed or fought in the 1st War for Armageddon. No matter how valuable any Guardsmen are, when battling the Daemonic the threat of taint is too much. What I mean by "cannon fodder" is used to fight a battle that they weren't expected to survive, that nobody was expected to survive but where victory is essential. In that instance soldiers used to fighting Chaos would be essential, to resist the influence of chaos and keep fighting long enough for the Grey Knights and Inquisitor to foil the plans of the Chaos Worshippers. If the threat is large enough, almost anyone is expendable but I should have explained what I meant more.

As for the permanence of the situation well simply the Inquisition may raise their own forces but there must certainly be times where there isn't time to have a special Regiment raised, which forces Inquisitors to requisition troops and materials. Thus the "inducted" guard that can be used in Witchhunter and Daemonhunter armies. However should those troops prove themselves when inducted I don't see why they wouldn't be kept around. After all this is the Ordo Malleus and men who have faced Daemons can hardly be returned to normal service to spread tales and forbidden knowledge at every in and brothel they visit, and it may be more trouble than it's worth to wipe their memories and ship them back home and simpler just to keep them around till they die in battle, and it's more useful than putting a bullet through their heads as the Inquisition has done to whole Regiments and more in the past. It's hardly unreasonable. While some forces might be requisitioned in the short term to deal with cultist cells and what not, when dealing with the Daemonic such forces can't really be returned. I haven't read the Eisenhorn books yet (though their sitting on my shelf) but I don't think he threw the Gundrunites at Daemons...

I was also considering prehaps a Regiment from Ultramar and I even worked out the scheme (tested it on one of the sergeants too) but I'm leaning more towards inducted Cadians. I was also considering having a squad or two of Cadians, a couple squads of an Ultramar Regiment, some more from something else and do something a little more ad-hoc, like a force of soldiers gathered from any available sources last minute. But I haven't decided yet. I guess it mostly comes down to how I paint them, I was considering doing the standard Cadian green and tan, but black and red Ordo Malleus colors are somewhat appealing and I like the look of the Ultramar soldier I painted... so still debating.

But anyway that's not the primary thing, the real concern is the actual models. Before I go spend a lot of money I want to know what I actually need to get to make a legal force of an HQ and a couple of working platoons.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 04:02   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

you don't need 2 platoons actually.

you could get by with a command platoon, a platoon (command and 2 squads) and a armored fist squad. of course if you're playing cadians with doctrines you can have a command platoon, infantry platoon and a squad of storm troopers(grenadier doctrine)
[hr]

Here is a cheap way I thought up

if you really want to be cheap(using cadian doctrines), by the battleforce(20) and a officer blister(2), and the standard/medic(2) blister. Now you put 2 of the heavy weapon teams in the squads(uses 16 infantry and 2 weapon teams) you have 4 infantry, 2 officers, a weapon team and 2 specalist. For your platoon command squad take an officer, the last weapon team and 2 men. You then put the last 2 men, your last officer, and the standard and medic in the HQ. then throw in a squad of storm troopers and you have an HQ(command sqaud) and 2 Troops(Infantry platoon, and Grenadiers)

hope it helps

[hr]
the blisters are officers btw. Vet sergeants can't carry power weapons or power fist(Veteran squad is an exception). oh and baneblades are apoc only unless you got IA

It will help a lot to get the book, then you can see what you want to add on.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 08:44   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legio Mortis
Firstly, whoever uses Cadians as cannon fodder is an idiot. There are other regiments that are much better suited to that sort of Klkn. The Baran Siegemasters come to mind. As for the rest, I could see the Inquisitors trying to borrow a regiment or so of Cadians, seeing as they're experts on killing anything Chaos, but what I'm having a problem with is that this regiment is basically owned by an Inquisitor. I really don't see that happening, seeing as how they're all needed at Cadia. What I could see is an Inquisitor borrowing them for a time, much like Eisenhorn did to the Gudrundites in the first Eisenhorn book.
Well Cadians may be hardcore and valuable but ultimately all Guardsmen are cannon fodder in the fight against Daemons. I mean just look what the Inquisition did to the soldiers and citizens who had witnessed or fought in the 1st War for Armageddon. No matter how valuable any Guardsmen are, when battling the Daemonic the threat of taint is too much. What I mean by "cannon fodder" is used to fight a battle that they weren't expected to survive, that nobody was expected to survive but where victory is essential. In that instance soldiers used to fighting Chaos would be essential, to resist the influence of chaos and keep fighting long enough for the Grey Knights and Inquisitor to foil the plans of the Chaos Worshippers. If the threat is large enough, almost anyone is expendable but I should have explained what I meant more.

As for the permanence of the situation well simply the Inquisition may raise their own forces but there must certainly be times where there isn't time to have a special Regiment raised, which forces Inquisitors to requisition troops and materials. Thus the "inducted" guard that can be used in Witchhunter and Daemonhunter armies. However should those troops prove themselves when inducted I don't see why they wouldn't be kept around. After all this is the Ordo Malleus and men who have faced Daemons can hardly be returned to normal service to spread tales and forbidden knowledge at every in and brothel they visit, and it may be more trouble than it's worth to wipe their memories and ship them back home and simpler just to keep them around till they die in battle, and it's more useful than putting a bullet through their heads as the Inquisition has done to whole Regiments and more in the past. It's hardly unreasonable. While some forces might be requisitioned in the short term to deal with cultist cells and what not, when dealing with the Daemonic such forces can't really be returned. I haven't read the Eisenhorn books yet (though their sitting on my shelf) but I don't think he threw the Gundrunites at Daemons...
It's not unjustifiable for an Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus to induct a regiment of Cadians. The liklihood is that he will be doing so in order to operate in the vicinity of the Eye of Terror/Cadian Gate anyway, so no problems with this. I would disagree on the "when dealing with the Daemonic such forces can't really be returned" comment, though. These are Cadians we're talking about, they can be expected to be pretty much inured to the manifestations of chaos, so the permanence of the situation is an issue. That said I don't think you'll have any problems justifying it another way... i.e. he's an Inquisitor so he has license to do whatever he feels like.

Works for me.

Johnnyboy's suggestions on what to buy are pretty sound too.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 15:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Let's take this nice and easy. First, as you obviously know, you should get the codex.

Now that I have that out of the way, you know what you need for a legal army. 1 HQ selection and 2 Troops selections. Your fastest way to do that, with your current models, is to do the following:

Use Doctrines and take Carapace Armor and Grenadiers. I don't know what the actual Cadian Doctrines are off the top of my head, but we'll just ignore that for now.

An imperial guard HQ is a Command Platoon. A Command Platoon consists of a Command Squad and 0-5 support squads. Given your models, we'll go with just a Command Squad. A Command Squad consists of an officer (your sergeant model will work just fine here), and 4 guardsmen. So set aside a sergeant and 5 models for the Command Squad. Now you have your HQ choice.

Next, we need troops choices. Normally, you must take at least one Infantry Platoon for a troops choice, but since you are using the grenadiers doctrine, you may take up to 3 Stormtrooper squads as troops choices. Each Stormtrooper/Grenadier squad consists of a sergeant and 9 men. You need two of these squads.

So two ten man stormtrooper squads plus a five man command squad brings us to 25 models (you have 30). The Sentinel can be taken as a fast attack choice OR as part of the HQ. The Baneblade isn't in the IG codex.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 15:23   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
you don't need 2 platoons actually.

you could get by with a command platoon, a platoon (command and 2 squads) and a armored fist squad. of course if you're playing cadians with doctrines you can have a command platoon, infantry platoon and a squad of storm troopers(grenadier doctrine)
[hr]

Here is a cheap way I thought up

if you really want to be cheap(using cadian doctrines), by the battleforce(20) and a officer blister(2), and the standard/medic(2) blister. Now you put 2 of the heavy weapon teams in the squads(uses 16 infantry and 2 weapon teams) you have 4 infantry, 2 officers, a weapon team and 2 specalist. For your platoon command squad take an officer, the last weapon team and 2 men. You then put the last 2 men, your last officer, and the standard and medic in the HQ. then throw in a squad of storm troopers and you have an HQ(command sqaud) and 2 Troops(Infantry platoon, and Grenadiers)

hope it helps
Thank you, that is exactly what I needed to know though the supply of IG blisters around here sucks, I bet I could mess around with some of the spare models and bits I have to make something work, I could probably convert a medic though the standard bearer will be more dificult. I'll think of something.

As a side note I sold the sentinel and got a Chimera to mount up one of the squads (the storm troopers). And looking over the sprues prior to assembly I noticed the tank crewman. There's a set of legs and a torso and stuff in there, with the Storm Trooper bits and the nice collapsable stock lasgun I decided to convert a Veteran Guardsmen for my Inquisitor and I sculpted a suit of carapace armor on the uniformed torso. What I'm wondering is does the Leman Russ come with the same tank crewman parts? I would assume so, that seems to be the way GW does tank crews, but I just want to be sure.

Quote:
[hr]
the blisters are officers btw. Vet sergeants can't carry power weapons or power fist(Veteran squad is an exception). oh and baneblades are apoc only unless you got IA

It will help a lot to get the book, then you can see what you want to add on.
Yea I know the Baneblade is apocalypse only, I bought it to use as an ally to my Space Marines in Apocalypse games actually (tired of dealing with Super Heavies without one of my own ya know?) but I figured I might as well include it on the list as I do have it and... well it's a baneblade, that's reason enough .

Thanks for your help, I've got the codex on order (all 3 local shops lacked a copy when I went to look), I just wanted to know so I could put an order in while the codex is still being shipped as placing an order gets a 10% discount plus store discount so... better than nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extartius
It's not unjustifiable for an Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus to induct a regiment of Cadians. The liklihood is that he will be doing so in order to operate in the vicinity of the Eye of Terror/Cadian Gate anyway, so no problems with this. I would disagree on the "when dealing with the Daemonic such forces can't really be returned" comment, though. These are Cadians we're talking about, they can be expected to be pretty much inured to the manifestations of chaos, so the permanence of the situation is an issue. That said I don't think you'll have any problems justifying it another way... i.e. he's an Inquisitor so he has license to do whatever he feels like.

Works for me.

Johnnyboy's suggestions on what to buy are pretty sound too.
Hmm... simpler and true, I like it. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
Let's take this nice and easy. First, as you obviously know, you should get the codex.

Now that I have that out of the way, you know what you need for a legal army. 1 HQ selection and 2 Troops selections. Your fastest way to do that, with your current models, is to do the following:
You know I've been playing this game for over six years, I have 7 armies already and I'm a moderator, key thing there is I'm not retarded and that attitude is just insulting. I'm new to the guard, not new to the game, so cut the sarcasm and superiority if you would kindly. >. Now that I have that out of the way, lets move on.

Quote:
Use Doctrines and take Carapace Armor and Grenadiers. I don't know what the actual Cadian Doctrines are off the top of my head, but we'll just ignore that for now.

An imperial guard HQ is a Command Platoon. A Command Platoon consists of a Command Squad and 0-5 support squads. Given your models, we'll go with just a Command Squad. A Command Squad consists of an officer (your sergeant model will work just fine here), and 4 guardsmen. So set aside a sergeant and 5 models for the Command Squad. Now you have your HQ choice.

Next, we need troops choices. Normally, you must take at least one Infantry Platoon for a troops choice, but since you are using the grenadiers doctrine, you may take up to 3 Stormtrooper squads as troops choices. Each Stormtrooper/Grenadier squad consists of a sergeant and 9 men. You need two of these squads.

So two ten man stormtrooper squads plus a five man command squad brings us to 25 models (you have 30). The Sentinel can be taken as a fast attack choice OR as part of the HQ. The Baneblade isn't in the IG codex.
Hmm, I hadn't considered using Storm Troopers as the basis... not a bad idea, I'll have to wait for the codex to arrive before I make the decision.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 16:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
You know I've been playing this game for over six years, I have 7 armies already and I'm a moderator, key thing there is I'm not retarded and that attitude is just insulting. I'm new to the guard, not new to the game, so cut the sarcasm and superiority if you would kindly. >. Now that I have that out of the way, lets move on.
This is not the first time a member of this community has taken what I've said as an insult. Looking back at what I said, I cannot possibly see how you might think I was calling you retarded.

I will clarify, so that my meaning is clear. I was making a very simple, straightforward statement in an attempt to supply you with what you asked for. I was not calling you names, or implying that you had any sort of mental deficiency.

Here is a short, non-ambiguous summary of my statement:

You already have what you need for a basic (low points), legal army. You didn't specify a points cost that you were shooting for, so I worked with what you mentioned that you already had.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 16:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
This is not the first time a member of this community has taken what I've said as an insult. Looking back at what I said, I cannot possibly see how you might think I was calling you retarded.

I will clarify, so that my meaning is clear. I was making a very simple, straightforward statement in an attempt to supply you with what you asked for. I was not calling you names, or implying that you had any sort of mental deficiency.

Here is a short, non-ambiguous summary of my statement:

You already have what you need for a basic (low points), legal army. You didn't specify a points cost that you were shooting for, so I worked with what you mentioned that you already had.
It was mostly this:

Quote:
Let's take this nice and easy. First, as you obviously know, you should get the codex.

Now that I have that out of the way, you know what you need for a legal army. 1 HQ selection and 2 Troops selections. Your fastest way to do that, with your current models, is to do the following:
Especially the first sentence which implies that I am incapable of understanding you without you having to dumb down what you say. The internet is just text, it doesn't allow for facial expressions or tone. What you would cut the edge off of with a light hearted tone or a smile doesn't work on the internet which leads to a lot of confusion. You may not have meant to imply anything, but everything you write has more than one interpretation and without care it's very easy to say something you didn't mean too. "Lets take this nice and easy" doesn't mean a whole lot without the context, but has many implications, few of which are flattering and which I was a little irked by.

I see it wasn't your intent and no hard feelings, just as some advice take care to check what you write and make sure that without tone and expressions the meaning is the same as what you intend. Anyway your suggestions were useful, thanks.
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Old 12 Mar 2008, 16:28   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: New to Imperial Guard (Could use some advice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
you don't need 2 platoons actually.

you could get by with a command platoon, a platoon (command and 2 squads) and a armored fist squad. of course if you're playing cadians with doctrines you can have a command platoon, infantry platoon and a squad of storm troopers(grenadier doctrine)
[hr]

Here is a cheap way I thought up

if you really want to be cheap(using cadian doctrines), by the battleforce(20) and a officer blister(2), and the standard/medic(2) blister. Now you put 2 of the heavy weapon teams in the squads(uses 16 infantry and 2 weapon teams) you have 4 infantry, 2 officers, a weapon team and 2 specalist. For your platoon command squad take an officer, the last weapon team and 2 men. You then put the last 2 men, your last officer, and the standard and medic in the HQ. then throw in a squad of storm troopers and you have an HQ(command sqaud) and 2 Troops(Infantry platoon, and Grenadiers)

hope it helps
Thank you, that is exactly what I needed to know though the supply of IG blisters around here sucks, I bet I could mess around with some of the spare models and bits I have to make something work, I could probably convert a medic though the standard bearer will be more dificult. I'll think of something.

As a side note I sold the sentinel and got a Chimera to mount up one of the squads (the storm troopers). And looking over the sprues prior to assembly I noticed the tank crewman. There's a set of legs and a torso and stuff in there, with the Storm Trooper bits and the nice collapsable stock lasgun I decided to convert a Veteran Guardsmen for my Inquisitor and I sculpted a suit of carapace armor on the uniformed torso. What I'm wondering is does the Leman Russ come with the same tank crewman parts? I would assume so, that seems to be the way GW does tank crews, but I just want to be sure.
I like the "free" man you get with the tank sprue, I used the peaked cap head and arm with gold braid to make a "dressed down" Commissar (because, after all, who'd go to battle in their dress uniform?)

And yes, you do get the same sprue with the russ (bonus!)
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