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Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused
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Old 27 Feb 2008, 20:39   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Default Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

As you may know, i am new to guard, i cam e up with a list and then had it ridiculed for having two medics in the command squad, is this not aloud? i was under the impression that if you paid the points for them to be veterans then they could choose to fill any of the slots.

and aside from that, i have given my JO the honorifica imperialis, and i was thinking to spread his high LD, could i give his squad a second Master vox? my HQ has a master vox, but can he have one as well? this would be so that i can spread the moral to two squad a turn instead of one, would this work?
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Old 27 Feb 2008, 22:22   #2 (permalink)
Cal
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

No sorry. In both cases, only one model may take the specific wargear per squad. I'm pretty sure it says "one model may". Also a Master-Vox can be used to communicate to any number of squads a turn, unlike a normal Vox, which can only communicate to one. So therefore it would be worthless taking a second anyway.

I'll back my arguments up soon with some quotes, I know my codex is around here somewhere.
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Old 27 Feb 2008, 22:37   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

In general though, the Guard medic is not a smart idea as such a unit is small and will attract a lot of dakka anyway, and a single saved wound really won't make a difference in the grander scheme of things.

The most cost-effective command squads are either assaulty (Powersword/BP commander, with flamer guard), or shooty (Storm Bolter commander w/ Grenade Launcher guard).
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Old 27 Feb 2008, 23:56   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
In general though, the Guard medic is not a smart idea as such a unit is small and will attract a lot of dakka anyway, and a single saved wound really won't make a difference in the grander scheme of things.
ha ha ha you are so wrong my medic has saved me so many times. Once my friend tied a game against nids after his entire army (mounted in a gorgon) was killed by 2 fex's. All that was left was his command squad that retreated to the objective and they were all wiped except for the medic who had to save him self twice and in the end he made the objective disputed and the game was tied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
The most cost-effective command squads are either assaulty (Powersword/BP commander, with flamer guard), or shooty (Storm Bolter commander w/ Grenade Launcher guard).
Assaulty Command Squad
-JO w/ honuorifica
-2xVets w/ C.C. weapons and las pistols
-Medic
-and a Flame Thrower guardsman
-all that can get carapace
that's assaulty

Shooty Command Squad
-SO w/ storm bolter
-Medic
-plasmagun
-and heavy weapon of choice
-you can have carapace if you want to
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Old 28 Feb 2008, 00:21   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

Well, for one thing, that command squad was under half strength and should not have been counted for take-and-hold purposes. The Medic is useless against instakill weapons (e.g. anything strength 6+, so that Eldar player with scatter lasers is going to have a field day) and power-weapons, and the small squad size mean the unit will die quickly.

Guard are simply not meant to assault on a grand scale. The assaulty squad you mentioned is hardly cost-effective as veterans still pale vs. Marines, Orks, or any dedicated assault troop. The ability to take four flamers is their boon, their ability to be mounted in a Chimera and quickly unloaded making them useful for undeploying and burning infantry en-masse. With carapace, they become approximately 16 points/model (24 for 4 guard default, 18 for veteran upgrades, 6 for the flamer, 16 for carapace [we're assuming 4 points account for the commander]) and for a unit that would only barely intimidate the average Tactical Squad or Boy horde.

Let us look at the average assault of the squad you mentioned...I would HOPE you gave the JO a power-weapon, and let us look at an ideal scenario where the Guard player managed to get the charge.

Assaults a marine squad, about 8-strong (having lost a casualty or 2 to the flamer...even marines fail saves). The marines go first, hitting on 3+, wounding 3+...you save 4+, ignore one wound...you lose 1.22 marines then and there on average. Your guard go, hitting on 4+ and wounding on 5+...2 wounds...approx .66 casualties to a marine player...the power-weapon would hit 2.5 times, wounding .89 times...another casualty for the guard player...congrats, 2 dead marines. The odds are only slightly more favorable with close-order drill. Your commander goes first, kills .89 marines...then your soldiers strike and kill .88...in all it's only slightly better odds. The marine veteran sergeant with hidden powerfist goes next (seriously, unless you somehow managed to assault a heavy-weapon devestator squad with your command squad, in which case you probably are a vastly superior general to your opponent). This goes 4 times, killing another 2.27 of your guard. Congrats, your tooled-out assault unit has lost to a jack-of-trades unit.

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Old 28 Feb 2008, 05:16   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

-Math it all you want Juggler, it still works i took on a full strength assault marine squad, a 5 man scout squad and then because they had no other choice they went ahead and killed about 3 marines from a tactical squad. Once i killed a squad of 3 Crisis suits with the same squad. Last, one time I had one less vet and no flame thrower insteed I had 2 melta's and it killed a daemon prince.
-In any case the way I lay out my my command squad is either really good or it is really lucky (but i doubt it).
-By the way the JO has a power weapon, and a bolt pistol. Plus i take chamoline and light infantry, and in my 2000 list they have a commissar.
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Old 28 Feb 2008, 05:43   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaphas Cain Hero of the Imperium
-Math it all you want Juggler, it still works i took on a full strength assault marine squad, a 5 man scout squad and then because they had no other choice they went ahead and killed about 3 marines from a tactical squad. Once i killed a squad of 3 Crisis suits with the same squad. Last, one time I had one less vet and no flame thrower insteed I had 2 melta's and it killed a daemon prince.
-In any case the way I lay out my my command squad is either really good or it is really lucky (but i doubt it).
-By the way the JO has a power weapon, and a bolt pistol. Plus i take chamoline and light infantry, and in my 2000 list they have a commissar.
The thing with mathing in a game based on multiple D6s is that the more dice rolled, the more the laws of averages take place. While for instance, with a single die, you have an equal chance of rolling a 1, 2, 3, 4 5, or 6, with 2d6, you have a 1 in 6 chance of a 7, a 1 in 36 chance of a 2, etc. The more dice you add, the more likely the average will be rolled.
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Old 28 Feb 2008, 16:53   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

ok, right, si i can't have two medics, and there is no point in having 2 master vox casters realy
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Old 28 Feb 2008, 17:57   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

The Master Vox does not apply to close-combat either way. Remember, the more platoons you have, the more command squads you have, and the more Iron Disciplines you can place across the field.
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Old 28 Feb 2008, 18:00   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Command Squad Veterans, i am a little confused

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
The Master Vox does not apply to close-combat either way. Remember, the more platoons you have, the more command squads you have, and the more Iron Disciplines you can place across the field.
The Master Vox lets all other units with a Vox use your Officer's Ld for one Leadership test each turn. I don't think there is a restriction stating that it can't be used for Leadership tests caused by CC results.
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