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Summary Execution vs Vox question
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 15:35   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Summary Execution vs Vox question

Well, a man is sure of everything until he starts to have doubts... We all know, that Commissar gives a bonus to Leadership of an officer; he also summarily executes him if he fails Morale test... The question is:

Lets assume we have a Command squad with an officer 'A' and a Commissar 'B'.
- Does the Ld bonus provided by 'B' to 'A' go down through Vox network? (I am sure it does, since official faq states it counts for Leadership rule, and Vox uses Leadership rule - though IA5 contradicts that);
- If an unit at the other end of Vox link, or for that matter, any unit that uses Ld of the officer 'A', but not his own unit, fails the Morale test, is the officer 'A' summarily executed by 'B'? (I assume yes, on the grounds that that would mean a benefit without a downside, but Codex does not support or contradict that openly as far as I can see);
- For that matter, if an unit can receive Leadership from several different Officers, which one can I use? Can I for example use lower Ld from a JO not accompanied by a Comissar within 12", or do I have to use higher Ld provided for example by Vox, risking Summary Execution? (I assume yes);
- Is it possible to use Ld of a command squad for Morale tests taken by another command squad, provided they're within 12" from another or both have Voxes? As above, even if I want to use lower Ld? (Logical conclusion from above seems to be yes);
- Considering all above, if my Officer sitting back with a vox caster gets summary executed, can the Comissar provide his Ld down the network? (now I'm confused. If no, that would mean one unlucky roll on Ld of any unit can down your entire vox network. If yes, well, Commissars do not have the Leadership special rule, so this seems also implausible...)

Big thanks to anyone inquisitive enough to come up with an answer...
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 15:48   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

second sentence of the Summary Execution rule.

Quote:
If a unit with a Commissar fails a morale check for any reason...
so no the officer is only executed if his squad tries to run.

but if the officer is executed the commiassar can not use his leadership down the vox.

hope that help just say if you need more info.
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 17:40   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

Much of this is irrellevant on account of the fact that the officer's leadership rule is not conveyed down a vox link. The vox caster special rules are independent of the leadership special rule; they may have an almost identical effect (the only differences being the extended range and the limitation in terms of the number of units that can use the vox link in one turn), but they make no reference whatsoever to the officer's 'leadership' special rule. I challenge you to read it and prove me wrong.
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 18:19   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

point Tom, it doesnt mention the leadership rule.

and while looking up the rule to prove you wrong I discovered.....

Tom's right sigh

in the last paragraph of the summary execution rule it specifically stats

Quote:
The pressence of the commissar in a unit wil therefore add +1 to the leadership characterisic of the officer or sergeant commanding the unit for tests affecting the unit.

moral of the story: Don't try to prove Tom wrong. He's always right.


oh well i never payed attention to the morals anyway. One of these days Norman. One of these days, I will you prove you wrong.
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 20:04   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

wont we all
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 22:47   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboy
point Tom, it doesnt mention the leadership rule.

and while looking up the rule to prove you wrong I discovered.....

Tom's right sigh

in the last paragraph of the summary execution rule it specifically stats

Quote:
The pressence of the commissar in a unit wil therefore add +1 to the leadership characterisic of the officer or sergeant commanding the unit for tests affecting the unit.
Well that's remarkably humble and complementary of you. Kudos. ^-^

It's important to note however that the Imperial Guard FAQs do amend the wording of the codex to allow the Commissar's Ld bonus to apply to the officer's 'leadership' special rule. So it's not like it doesn't confer that benefit at all; just not over a vox link. I've always rationalised this as the squad sergeant needing to be able to see the Commissar making cut throat gestures in order for his presence to be a factor.
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
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Old 17 Jan 2008, 23:16   #7 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
I've always rationalised this as the squad sergeant needing to be able to see the Commissar making cut throat gestures in order for his presence to be a factor.
I can just picture that... With a whole lot of pointing and gesturing at throats etc. I wonder if they still use sign language in the 41st millenium?
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 07:40   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

Darn, I was wrong again! Yes, the vox-caster entry doesn't literally mention the Leadership rule... And so I have to agree with you Tom.
...
Another clever and illegal tactic on my part. And I thought the Voxes were really good That explains why I didn't see anyone using them.
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Old 19 Jan 2008, 02:29   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Smirnov
Darn, I was wrong again! Yes, the vox-caster entry doesn't literally mention the Leadership rule... And so I have to agree with you Tom.
...
Another clever and illegal tactic on my part. And I thought the Voxes were really good That explains why I didn't see anyone using them.
oh well at least you are still ld 9, rather than 8 with veteran sgts. and as tom said anyone within 12' do get the ld 10 bonus.
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Old 21 Jan 2008, 06:53   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Summary Execution vs Vox question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal
I can just picture that... With a whole lot of pointing and gesturing at throats etc. I wonder if they still use sign language in the 41st millenium?
they do, some of gaunts ghosts found it to be;
a)better than chanting the litany of stealth(as it doesen't involve a lot of noise)
b)a better way to comunicate with deaf people

kunas
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