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Catachans Deathworld Veterans
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 20:20   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Catachans Deathworld Veterans

So I got some Catachan models cheap and wanted to finally build an IG force, but at my local gaming club we don't have any jungle terrain and also I have been forbidden to use the Ambush special rule, so is it possible for Catachans to win outside the jungle? I have I'd rather take doctrine army thanks

Edit by FT: Corrected your grammar and made it easier to read.
Eidt by JD: I dunno how you managed to read it after the changes FT
Edit by AC: JD you've spelt edit incorrectly...
Edit by WG: I just wanted to be part of the moment. :P
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 20:45   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Pardon? If you are asking if Catachans can work well outside of jungles, then I do not know. But they can't exactly ban you from a special rule. That's like saying marines are banned from 'And they shall know no fear'. No jungle terrain? Make some!
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 21:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lest we forget, the gecko!
Pardon? If you are asking if Catachans can work well outside of jungles, then I do not know. But they can't exactly ban you from a special rule. That's like saying marines are banned from 'And they shall know no fear'. No jungle terrain? Make some!
Codex: Catachans is obsolete now, so they can outlaw any and all rules from that codex they consider overpowered. But then again, any group of gamers could just as easily ban 'And the shall know no fear'. I mean, how might they enforce the prohibitation of a given special rule? The game would grind to a standstill and eventually they'd simply pack up their models if you insisted on playing said rule. When only two players are involved, either can 'ban' any rule at all by the same principle.

In friendly games, both players are entering into a 'contract' of sorts to play the game as per the current rules. Anything outside of those rules (eg. Forge World units or house rules) must be agreed upon seperately. Expecting to be able to use rules outside of those legally established in the rulebook and current codices would be like you buying a car and then expecting the guy you bought it from to throw in a bottle of engine oil, brake fluid, and a pair of fluffy dice. If it's not what you agreed on then it's not reasonable to expect it. This isn't a case of anyone 'banning' a special rule, it's simply a case of players not willing to play a game involving alternative rules. Only in tournaments does a single governing body decide what rules will and will not be permitted. Beyond that, players decide between themselves what rules they will use.

In short, you can 'ban' any special rule, unit, weapon or T-Shirt colour you want to by simply refusing to play a game against an opponent who wants to use said offending article.

In answer to your question, Aloh´Ta; yes - Catachans can win outside a jungle setting, but they are obviously better suited to verdant green battlefields. Gecko makes a good point about the absence of jungle terrain too; it's not hard to make.
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Old 15 Dec 2007, 23:57   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Of course you can it will just take a lot more planning and a good strategy
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Old 16 Dec 2007, 01:16   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

From what I understand, on the "more planning and good strategy" comment, Catachans are designed to fight strictly in jungle terrain, it's ridiculously difficult to play them in any other setting. You're trying to imply Catachan players lack strategy when the list is built around jungle fighting...

It's like saying Tau players lack strategy because they can't do HtH combat. In a way. I'm bad with analogies so shut up.
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Old 19 Dec 2007, 05:46   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Actually Codex Catachans is still legal as a supplement codex. It's like kroot mercs in the way thats it's an official army unofficially. If you get what i mean. Codex Catachans is still tourament legal in many cases as well (I know in the USA it is, Aussie GW is still not sure what to do about it)

On the topic of banning the ambush rules... just say to your opponent that they cannot deepstrike or use one of their special rules. Ambush is simple the Deathworld version of deepstrike, and not that any units can do it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidstyler
From what I understand, on the "more planning and good strategy" comment, Catachans are designed to fight strictly in jungle terrain, it's ridiculously difficult to play them in any other setting. You're trying to imply Catachan players lack strategy when the list is built around jungle fighting...

It's like saying Tau players lack strategy because they can't do HtH combat. In a way. I'm bad with analogies so shut up.
In no way is a Deathwolrd list harder to play than a normal IG list outside the Jungle... yes they get all their cool stuff in it, but out of it that are just as effective. They cost the same or similar to doctrinated guardsmen anyway.

Excuse my use of points costs but it is for explaination purposes, if someone of a higher power wishes to remove it, do so.

Put it this way, a DWV is 9 points. 3 points higher than your normal Guardsmen. A DWV has better I and WS. Giving a unit a normal IG hardened fighters and jungle fighters puts them up to a base cost of 9 points/ guardsmen anyway. And in simple terms the doctrine Catachans just can't hack it, your save is downgraded (yes it helps to have a 5+ over a 6+) and you still don't get that extra Initiative.

The closest thing to Catachans you can get using the doctrine system is this

Jungle fighters
Hardened Fighters
Veterans
Drop troops (to represent their old ambush)
Special Weapon squads (for the snipers)

DWV's don't have access to tanks, so what? you get traps, you get independent snipers, you get variable squad sizes, assault teams, patrol squads, better sentinels etc.

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Old 20 Dec 2007, 12:17   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Catachans are beastly! ;D
catachans have way more power than the standard guard for just 3 points!
You know that you don't have to be pue dwv's to be catachan army. you can induct tanks if you want to.>
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 13:20   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbraden
Catachans are beastly! ;D
catachans have way more power than the standard guard for just 3 points!
You know that you don't have to be pue dwv's to be catachan army. you can induct tanks if you want to.>
An extra 3 points per model is quite a lot you know. How can you 'induct' tanks anyway? Is this an 'allies' rule similar to those found in the Inquisitorial codices? I always thought the Catachan list was very much a standalone list. ???
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 13:42   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbraden
Catachans are beastly! ;D
catachans have way more power than the standard guard for just 3 points!
You know that you don't have to be pue dwv's to be catachan army. you can induct tanks if you want to.>
An extra 3 points per model is quite a lot you know. How can you 'induct' tanks anyway? Is this an 'allies' rule similar to those found in the Inquisitorial codices? I always thought the Catachan list was very much a standalone list. ???
maybe he is talking about having inquisition tanks :-\
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Old 20 Dec 2007, 16:33   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Catachans Deathworld Veterans

Or just doing the fashionable Apocalypse thing and ignoring FOC/Army rules.
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