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Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 15:33   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

Can it's template be placed so that it touches a unit in CC? I know that normally, you cannot fire into a combat, but the cyclops is kind of a weird case since it's self destructing and thus does not require a target to be named. Plus if the template cannot be placed into a combat at all that would mean that it would pretty much be unable to blow up if there was a combat within 2.5" of it. On the other hand, being able to place the template into a combat would definitely be breaking a major feature of the game and could make the cyclops an absolute monster for it's points cost. I notice there is also a similar debate going on about the vibrocannon.

Let it be known that I'm personally erring on the side of caution so far due to the reasons I mentioned. I reckon that to be fair anyone in CC hit by the cyclops' template should be an "incidental" casualty and the majority of the models hit by the blast should be models not in CC. Of course that's just a quick house ruling off the top of my head, so I'm going to put it up here on the forum to see what the guard experts have to say once again.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 15:37   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

Good question. Personally, I would treat this as a "scatter into combat" effect. In short, resolve it the same way you would as if an Ordnance / Barrage weapon had landed a shot into combat.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 16:45   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

Mmmm...it is very much a deliberate action if you drive it into a crowd and detonate it yourself, but if it just happens to be in the immediate vicinity of a close combat and your opponent elects to shoot at it, then it's sort of accidental isn't it?

Going by RAW there's nothing to stop you driving it into your own men and pressing the big red button, but going by the spirit of the rules, which allow no commander (no matter how sadistic) to deliberately fire into the mayhem of close combat, I'd say it's a big no-no.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 16:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

it says in rulebook that you can't place templates over your own models or in combat, so no you couldn't, and as it doesn't scatter..

and also its impossible to get a full strength hit on a vehicle, as the hole isn't over the vehicle, its on your cyclops, so thats why i stopped using them since new edition, though the model is so cute.... ahem
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 17:04   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

Not necessarily. Look at Tom's example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Mmmm...it is very much a deliberate action if you drive it into a crowd and detonate it yourself, but if it just happens to be in the immediate vicinity of a close combat and your opponent elects to shoot at it, then it's sort of accidental isn't it?
So if you park it next to a group in combat and make it so the enemy needs to kill it or face devastation & the enemy commander shoots it then yeah as it'll be collateral damage.

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Originally Posted by Tom Norman
Going by RAW there's nothing to stop you driving it into your own men and pressing the big red button, but going by the spirit of the rules, which allow no commander (no matter how sadistic) to deliberately fire into the mayhem of close combat, I'd say it's a big no-no.
Hmm I'm sure there's a few traitor commanders who would disagree.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 17:15   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

yeah but if you follow the rules.. you can't
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 17:59   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

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Originally Posted by Timjim
it says in rulebook that you can't place templates over your own models or in combat, so no you couldn't, and as it doesn't scatter.
You're absolutely right. Although that rule is given in the context of shooting into combat, it does expressly stipulate that you can't place blast markers or templates such that they cover any models locked in close combat.

Riot control by way of Cyclops deployment is not an option then. The Arbites will be so very disappointed.
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 18:14   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

also it says in ordanance/templete bit that you cant put on your own models
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 20:15   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

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Originally Posted by Wargamer
Good question. Personally, I would treat this as a "scatter into combat" effect. In short, resolve it the same way you would as if an Ordnance / Barrage weapon had landed a shot into combat.
And what might that be...?
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Old 06 Dec 2007, 20:38   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Interesting (possibly stupid) question about the Cyclops

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Originally Posted by Tak'Ukos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Good question. Personally, I would treat this as a "scatter into combat" effect. In short, resolve it the same way you would as if an Ordnance / Barrage weapon had landed a shot into combat.
And what might that be...?
Application of common sense. If the bomb goes off and hits models in combat, it will probably kill them unless they're a Wraithlord.

As for the vehicle thing... I think any opponent who deserves to keep his teeth would accept that a "Demolition Vehicle" needs to be able to level bunkers. Ergo, it will do equally well at levelling tanks, and anything hit by it, infantry, vehicle or fortified position, should take a full-strength hit.

If your opponent isn't deserving of said teeth, Book-bag him.
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