[Lowerlife]

Hey guys I'm just wondering what are your thoughts on hardened veterans they have a BS skill of 4 and get tons of special weapons and i was just wondering what you guys think of them? ???

[Tom Norman]

I think they're fething awesome! Storm Troopers can poke it. A squad of Elysian veterans with a Valkyrie transport, two plasma guns and a demo charge between them is the bane of Terminators and Terminator wannabes everywhere. I've never really tried them in any other capacity, but roping in from a Valkyrie can really put their awesome close range firepower to good use. Their poor armour means they'll have even shorter life expectancies than regular Guardsmen because they're such a high priority target, but give them the means to get close enough to make a difference with their special weapons and they'll do wonderful things for you. A Valkyrie is ideal, but a Chimera will do. Deep striking and infiltrating are reasonable options, but dangerous. If you infiltrate, they'll likely draw a great deal of fire from the word go. If they deep strike, they could scatter badly or unto their oblivion. Don't ever footslog with them though...not unless you've got a wall of armour to advance behind and the enemy has no barrage weapons.

[BloodHawk]

I love them as well. As of now, I always deepstrike mine with 2 or 3 meltaguns, and because I always roll really well for DS scatters they almost always end up within 6" of an enemy tank(now if I could only roll higher than a 1 on the armor penetration chart).

I feel that the best way to use Vets and Stormtroopers is to take several small squads to maximize their special weapons while minimizing price, however this is some debate at my store whether this is a good idea or not because it puts your small squad in sever danger whenever they get shot at.

Really, it all depends what your using them for. If you can protect them, I say take small squads and max out weapons. You can take a squad of 5 vets with 3 plasmas or meltas for 75 pts!

[captain_octavain]

Best unit in the guard imo, I always would carry a unit of these boys when ever I played my guard.

[GeekyGator]

I honestly prefer Stromtroopers. The better armor gives them a slight benifit over the vets and makes them harder to deal with for the enemy (Psycologically, especially with Tau, you're mowing down guardsmen and then get to this one squad that you can't use your AP5 weapons on. They usually overreact).

[Aftercresent]

Originally Posted by GeekyGator

I honestly prefer Stromtroopers. The better armor gives them a slight benifit over the vets and makes them harder to deal with for the enemy (Psycologically, especially with Tau, you're mowing down guardsmen and then get to this one squad that you can't use your AP5 weapons on. They usually overreact).

Stormtroopers can do things well and are very fluffy; but veterans can do it faster, which is better for the six turn game.

[Tom Norman]

Originally Posted by GeekyGator

I honestly prefer Stromtroopers. The better armor gives them a slight benifit over the vets and makes them harder to deal with for the enemy (Psycologically, especially with Tau, you're mowing down guardsmen and then get to this one squad that you can't use your AP5 weapons on. They usually overreact).

The vast majority of small arms in 40k are AP5, not just Tau, so do you find that carapace armour makes a significant difference? Personally I find that even Storm Troopers melt away shortly after dismounting so I play expecting a unit to be destroyed in short order. That being so I favour Hardened Veterans because they can inflict more hurt before being destroyed.

[GeekyGator]

Yes, most small arms are AP5, but I mostly play Tau.

In fact, I do think Carapace makes a big difference. It's nice for 2 extra points per normal guardsmen/a few more for ST's to not get shredded.

[Tom Norman]

Originally Posted by GeekyGator

Yes, most small arms are AP5, but I mostly play Tau.

In fact, I do think Carapace makes a big difference. It's nice for 2 extra points per normal guardsmen/a few more for ST's to not get shredded.

The two extra points is one way of looking at it, but I think the real cost is the fact that they can take one less special weapon and no heavy weapons at all. Deploying by Valkyrie has the additional advantage of allowing you to deploy heavy weapons in such a way as to allow them to fire immediately. If one unit has twice the firepower of another, does it really matter if it lasts only half as long? I don't place that much faith in carapace armour anyway; it may offer decent protection against small arms, but Stormies are still as much heavy bolter fodder as hardened veterans. They won't last, so best make the most of them while they're still on the field.

[captain_octavain]

The vast majority of small arms in 40k are AP5, not just Tau, so do you find that carapace armour makes a significant difference? Personally I find that even Storm Troopers melt away shortly after dismounting so I play expecting a unit to be destroyed in short order. That being so I favour Hardened Veterans because they can inflict more hurt before being destroyed

a +4 save helped me out when they held out 20 orks and a warboss for 5 turns allowing me to win the game .... So yes the 4+ save

A 4+ save really helps in tight situations like when they are trying to take an objective or something like the situation I stated above, but when the stormies are just sitting there trying to soak up fire they go to waste..........

but still will always take hardened vets over a storm trooper squad...