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In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat
Old 22 Mar 2007, 07:47   #1 (permalink)
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Default In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

I took my 21st Cadian Mechanized List too a store today and after showing the list around to a number of players who play in tournaments and asking them to score it as if I was their opponent on composition, painting, sportsmanship I ended up getting a 1-2 on composition, my painting usually gets me a 5-6 and sportsmanship (fun to play against)I got between 1-3

The reason for the poor army composition score was the las/plas combo in the infantry squads, the COD doctrine and vet sgts. Surprisingly the fact I had 2 demolishers and a basilisk wasn't an issue.

As I spoke with the GW staff about the matter they agreed that the army composition was not fluffy for the IG. Plasma and Lascannons being in short supply I guess wouldn't be handed out to every guardsman.

They also pointed out the fact that tournaments aren't always won by the results of the game, in fact 3 of the 4 scoring criteria is made up on things outside the actual game. They asked me what I usually gave opponents and I said 5-6 for composition, they then asked did I ever stop to look at their army, how many troops, min max, are they all geared in the best weapons etc. They pointed out that too army composition is supposed to be a score based on reasonable fluff, there is a whole history of 40k for each army and if someone is not running at least 40-50% in troop points they said they should not get a score higher then 4, and then work down, if the other things like elite, fast, heavy, command outnumber their troop choices then score them lower as 40k is about troops fighting with supporting units, not supporting units fighting with a few troops.

The other grading they talked about was sportsmanship, split in 2 groups. 1-3 points for how fun the opponents army was to play against, was it a good game and 1-3 points for the player, were they fun to play against. If a player is rude, rules lawyering, arguing etc then score them accordingly, if the game was fun give it a good score if too lopsided and not fun give it an according score.

They suggested I change my list by dropping the las/plas combo to a missle launcher/grenade launcher combo and using my vox system for mechanized as "fluff" wise with men in vehicles they would have radios with them.

They pointed out that I still have the 2x Demolishers and Basilisk which can blow through AV 14 vehicles and the missile launchers can glance them as well.

What do you guys think? Fluff or out for blood competitiveness?
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Old 22 Mar 2007, 09:38   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

Personally, i just don't play in tournaments. I play purely for fun, so all my games are with friends. Or at a Gamesday. :P

So naturally, i go for generally fluffy but competative armies. Personally, i use Melta's. But thats because i roll for carp on Plasma. I bake more of my troops than theres with it.

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Old 22 Mar 2007, 11:18   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

I always play for fun. I would never, ever consider a "competetive" list. In all my games, the maximum nuber of lascannons I have ever fielded is three. One ot two in infantry squads. One in a infantry command squad and perhaps in with some hardened veterans. Other than that, I use Autocannons and a few missile launchers. Plasma is great against MEQs, but I always like to mix weapons. And grenadelaunchers are greatly underestimated. I don't care too much for las/plas.
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Old 22 Mar 2007, 12:51   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

I try to find a balance. I like to run a reasonably tough list, but I just can't bring myself to disregard fluff. Why not play chess then? As for the Las/Plas guard army, it would be pretty rare, it's not absolutely stupid, but those weapons do tend to be a lil more scarce than others (especially the plasma). Maybe if you mixed it up a bit people would be a lil less inclined to mark you down on comp. I find people usually like a nice variety of units better than Ctrl C+Ctrl V-ing most of the army list
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Old 22 Mar 2007, 14:34   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

Generally only my stormies or veterans use plasma guns, bs3 just misses too often to justify the points
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Old 22 Mar 2007, 14:58   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

It a tournament I'm expecting to fight against really powerful and well thought out lists.

If my opponent takes a las plas in every guard squad thats fine. He's allowed to do it by the rules and if its what he plays best with then go for it.

I base someone's comp score on how well their list works. Is it a competitive list? Do all the elements support each other well? Is the list themed?

Also "themed" doesn't have to mean its not powerful. Theme is just that, a constant theme and clear consistency in their army.

Overall I'd much rather play a game against someone who came ready and prepared to fight tooth and nail while having a good time, instead of someone trying to pander to me so that I score them better.

As long as you don't rely on a silly exploit or trick (like siren) then your comp score should be good.
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Old 22 Mar 2007, 16:07   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

The 40-50% troops is fine for some armies that have all round troopers like tactical marines. It's not so great for an army like Tau that can't take special weapons.

My store threw the 40'50% rule out the window, Iusually score A high sportsmanship area. It really depends more on how you play, not what you play.
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I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 22 Mar 2007, 17:42   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

I personally can't run a "competitive" list..

There is nothing in my eyes more irritating than an army that is geared to nothing but winning.. what I mean to say is, my forces always start from the fluff and then develop into the models.. before I ever buy a model the whole army already has a background. But, that is just the way I do it..

40K is too rich a universe to just pack plasma weapons and lascannons into an army and go play.. you need to use all the tools your given, including the fluff..

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Old 23 Mar 2007, 12:02   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

One name on the Las/Plas. Forgeworld Ryza. To me, would it not make sense that the troops from the forgeworld of Ryza would have more plasma per command than just about any other infantry command?
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Old 23 Mar 2007, 12:12   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: In tournaments should you be Fluffy or Cut Throat

I do not play in tounies, so I design all my armies to be balanced and fluffy. I hate beyond words people who powergame in a friendly game environment, however, I expect this sort of thing at a tournie. Hell, point is to win games, and building an powerful list does this.

It would be like, if in Formula 1 racing, instead of making the best car you could, you only entered your stock model - the ford team would enter a focus, while the ferrari team would enter, well, a Ferrari. Theres no way the Ford driver would have a chance, but he is sticking to what the company does.

Now in a friendly race, thats all well and up to the drivers. But a comptetion that matters, with winners, you do not want to penalise your armies effectiveness by focusing more on fluff than power.

Powergaming is natural for tournies, its what they are designed for. Just don't do it for friendly games.

GGOGH, while it would probably be more fluffy to stick with the so called weaker, Guard weapons, if you are in a tournie, and playing Guard, you can prob guess you're gonna be up against some powerful armies. Hell, taking on marines with just 8 Flashlights, a Grenade launcher and well, ML is ok, but still, that is gonna give you a tough game, even more so if the marine list is unbalanced (if : lol.
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