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IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!
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Old 05 Feb 2007, 11:41   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

[[[ Hi all, so far, my experiences with my IG getting "stuck-In" with CC is mostly bad news!, except for my Hardened vets killing a Vet Marine Sgt in termie armor and a Thunder hammer, I have seen even my HSO look a total wimp when in HtH, Seems that like the Tau, we need to shoot them all dead BEFORE they reach our lines! There are so many units ou there that shred even the best IG commnad squad like they were wet tissue paper, and it seems they do so with little to no chance of retaliation by that Officer and squad. even taking a power weapon, well, if they are T4, you need the dice to be nice and roll 5's or 6's.

Marines T4, power armor, WS4, so if you fail the 5+ rolls, your sqd will be munched, and that officer is minced later on! same with chaos Marines, Daemonettes, Bloodletters, Furies, etc.

Gene-stealers are speed+Strength+many attacks, and rending claws! about the same for the Daemonettes. so we are truly screwed here.

Now, i know some of you will say take a Power fist for S6 attacks, but that slows you to I=1, and the daemonettes, and stealers can lay down so many attacks that you are dead before you get to use that weapon, same with powersword, but the only races we are faster than are crons, who are S+T=4 with 3+ saves, or Tau who are T3, and have 4+ saves to defend against us. Therefore, we need to get the guns to work and slay them all before we get stuck in!

so, Powerfist, more strength, but so slow it is likely to do little to no good.
Power weapon, faster attacks, but against T4, you better roll high.

It was frustrating that what attacks I could get in, i rolled 4's or lower, so it was like the damn power sword was made in some cheap factory and was about as useless as a plastic toy!

IG, one step above Tau for HtH. All the others will shred the poor IG.
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Old 05 Feb 2007, 12:26   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

Oh-Gryns, Oh-Gryns, Oh-Gryns! ;D
These guys are the very brunt of close combat menace in the Imperial Guard.
I do not have any models of them myself...yet (Ogre Kingdoms beware).
But I've proxied them with termies.
They are mean. Many wounds, over average strength, decent toughness.
I'd say they are underestimated.
I made mincemeat of Marines several times over. I'd recommend them for anyone a tad frightened of combat.
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Old 05 Feb 2007, 12:39   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

Conscripts, anyone?
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Old 05 Feb 2007, 13:52   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

Yes, conscripts are the only relativly okay HtH thing in the IG beside ogryns.

Sadly, in reality, it is very rare to get all them odels in your conscripts pack to attack. But more then anything, if they do not have the upper initiative, their very crappy WS make them extremly easy to hit. (A space marine only miss them on a natural ''1'&#39 So, even if their melle attacks are just as good as a normal guardsmen and they have the bodies to take a very, very long HtH battle and survive it, most of the time your ennemy will attack first, kill all the conscripts in range, no one to retaliate with, and consolidate.

The only thing conscripts are great at fighting is the tyranids homagaunts IMO

Ah however, if you want a GREAT HtH fighting force in a 2k army, take a big pack of 50 conscripts and put Commissar Yarrick in them. Hell, if you really want to have a big pack of HtH force, you may even waste 100pts and equip those 50 conscripts with a laspistol and a melle weapon with that special doctorine.

You just put Yarrick behind the first line, so you can choose your target. When you advance, shoot 50 rounds of laspistol and the stormbolter, and charge, you make sure Yarrick get on the edge of the ennemy far, far away from any powerfist. He just slaugher anything that hasnt a strenght of 6+ at least.
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Old 05 Feb 2007, 16:01   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archimede
Yes, conscripts are the only relativly okay HtH thing in the IG beside ogryns.

Sadly, in reality, it is very rare to get all them odels in your conscripts pack to attack. But more then anything, if they do not have the upper initiative, their very crappy WS make them extremly easy to hit. (A space marine only miss them on a natural ''1'&#39 So, even if their melle attacks are just as good as a normal guardsmen and they have the bodies to take a very, very long HtH battle and survive it, most of the time your ennemy will attack first, kill all the conscripts in range, no one to retaliate with, and consolidate.

The only thing conscripts are great at fighting is the tyranids homagaunts IMO

Ah however, if you want a GREAT HtH fighting force in a 2k army, take a big pack of 50 conscripts and put Commissar Yarrick in them. Hell, if you really want to have a big pack of HtH force, you may even waste 100pts and equip those 50 conscripts with a laspistol and a melle weapon with that special doctorine.

You just put Yarrick behind the first line, so you can choose your target. When you advance, shoot 50 rounds of laspistol and the stormbolter, and charge, you make sure Yarrick get on the edge of the ennemy far, far away from any powerfist. He just slaugher anything that hasnt a strenght of 6+ at least.
What? No. The lowest score anyone can hit anything at is a 3+. Even a creature with WS10 would still hit something with WS2 on a 3+.
And conscripts are quite useful as well. (Only too many models to paint...)
Still, they are not only useful against hordes like the nids or orks. But they are great to tie up big meanies like Deamon Princes, Wraithlords and Hive Tyrants/Carnifexes etc. Keep a Commissar in proximity, and the chances of them fleeing are very low indeed. They are even strong enough to wound some of them...
The problem of using ICs/Characters in such disposable squads is that they die way too easily. In melee, the IC/Character can be singled out, and then easily killed. I'd keep them as they are, and only have them within '12' of an officer.
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Old 06 Feb 2007, 01:37   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Winter

What? No. The lowest score anyone can hit anything at is a 3+. Even a creature with WS10 would still hit something with WS2 on a 3+.
You do get to hit a opponent on a 2+ if you have the double of its weapon skill plus one i think. That was my mistake, but i still belive that a wraithlord hit a conscript on a 2+. I would have to check.
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Old 06 Feb 2007, 01:42   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archimede
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Winter

What? No. The lowest score anyone can hit anything at is a 3+. Even a creature with WS10 would still hit something with WS2 on a 3+.
You do get to hit a opponent on a 2+ if you have the double of its weapon skill plus one i think. That was my mistake, but i still belive that a wraithlord hit a conscript on a 2+. I would have to check.
I would think that would be from some older editions, if any.
Just consult to the "Assault, to-hit chart" in the back of the rulebook.
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Old 06 Feb 2007, 02:12   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

well heres my idea for a cc oriented gaurd army.


Id keep about 2 long range squads to put meat in front of my lascannons and missiles, get a unit of 50 conscripts with a commissar to stall strong enemy units and make them take moral tests to shoot past them, take a few mobile suads with plasma and melta guns to soften up an enemy before a charge and take out a tank or two, id put a commissar with one of those two. A vet squad or stormtrooper squad in a chimera, and ogryn squad with a commissar in a chimera, and probably a HSO with a power weapon, vets with cc weapons, and a standard.

with that army youd have lots of meat to hold the enemy units in line and let you get in position, a good amount of fire to take down heavys, and a good amount of power cc units.

Youd have to take independent commissars and ogryns, though id also take hardened fighters, and die hards with either ratlings for extra fire support or carapace for an extra bit of save in cc

As for tau and guard being crappy in cc, you can get lucky sometimes. I had a unit of 7 fire warriors take down a marine command squad with a standard, a medic and a apostate somethin or other that let them ignore the first wound in some phase of the turn or other. The standard overheated with his plasma pistol before the charge and the guys just kept failing thier saves. Granted it took the entire game but haveing 7 fire warriors hold up and eventually kill a points maxed marine command squad is very nice. ;D
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Old 06 Feb 2007, 02:17   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

PRIESTS!!!!

The reroll misses on the charge rule is excellent for any CC unit. That and chainsaws are awesome.

Also, Rough Riders. People tend to forget they have 12" charge, and S5 I5 power weapons on the charge (if you were smart and got them hunting lances for the CC ability).
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Old 06 Feb 2007, 05:40   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: IG in Close Combat? Don't do it!!!

I;ve found that until you get into massive differences in WS, there's not that much difference between WS 2, 3, and 4

My WS2 gun drone shit a space marine just as easily as another space marine does. The downside is that the marine hits them on a 3+ 1 point can be very important, it;s about 16% more or less, which makes a difference...but not an intollerable one

The most important attributes in assault are initiative and sheer numbers. Strength and WS only make a big difference when there's a very large gap
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