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Heavy Mortars VS Mortars
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 01:25   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

I have just found the joys of mortars, and then discovered that there exists the heavy mortar (FW rules) http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/heavymort.pdf. I was wondering is the heavy mortar any good, admittedly it has the obvious stat benefits, but it has its downsides: it can&#39;t shoot within 12" and has the possibility of being destroyed on any glancing or penetrating hits should a 5 or 6 be rolled to determine who takes the hits (cannon or crew roll). So what is your opinion?
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 01:41   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

Well as long as you keep some good targets in front of your mortars to keep them alive and kicking you should be ok. I personally think the Thudd gun is cooler though.
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 01:43   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

Heavy Mortars can be a God-Emperor send for a Guard army. Where a trio of light Mortars will fetch around 80 points, and a Griffon pretty much the same for one Heavy Mortar, a bargain 50 points gets you a Heavy Mortar. A 1500 point Guard army can comfortably include no less than nine of them, although you&#39;ll have no real tanks.

Plonk them behind size 3 cover, and lob away... all but negates thier vulnerablilty.

Another thing about them, what&#39;s the verdict on Drop Troop armies Deep Striking their Heavy Mortars? I mean, you can do it with a Sentinel and there&#39;s not too much size difference...
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 03:14   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dra&#39;Tuisich-Novae
Another thing about them, what&#39;s the verdict on Drop Troop armies Deep Striking their Heavy Mortars? I mean, you can do it with a Sentinel and there&#39;s not too much size difference...
For now I would say opponent&#39;s permission. That&#39;s probably a good idea to send that to Forge World, they actually will take that into consideration and release the verdict in the final rule set. It&#39;s why they&#39;re called Experimental Rules, so that players can try them out and tell them what need&#39;s fixing.

...GW could learn a lot from this relatively simple process.
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 03:24   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

Now, now... that would be far too simple, wouldn&#39;t it? ^.^
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 04:14   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

For those of you still running around confused, here&#39;s a piece I already wrote before and am moving for easier reference, and editing.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Just for those of you wondering what&#39;s so good about a Thuddgun, and its close relative, the Heavy Mortar...

It lays down ----&gt;4&lt;---- (yes, you read that right, 4) 5/5 blast templates in a barrage BY ITSELF. Against the average horde, that means you&#39;re wounding on 2s and negating saves. Mmmmm. Tasty. You also have 9(pi) (for you math fools, pi is slightly more than 3, and for you geeks, a 3-inch template has 2.25(pi) square inches, and you shoot four templates) square inches of blast template to work with, which is a flat area about 10" wide with some gaps. Killer against horde GEQ, and also has the fun ability to scatter onto other units not normally targetable. (Is there an independent character dancing next to the unit you&#39;re firing at? With a few good rolls on the scatter die, you can move the templates like an amoeba and eat him, or at least wound him.)

And it causes pinning, but a -1 leadership as if it were ordnance.

Its 60" range is delicious, so it&#39;s more flexible than the standard mortar in larger games. The 12" minimum range isn&#39;t a problem - if they&#39;re that close, your guns are probably screwed anyhow, or you deployed them like an idiot without support, or you can jump them out of the way with a Centaur.

Costwise, you can get one gun for a fething 60 points. Three can be deployed (each gun seperately) for a single Heavy Support, and unlike Sniper Drones, you can take this again... and again. 9 Thuddguns? Yes indeed!

The Heavy Mortar is a slightly different beast. For 50 points, and the same deployment methods, it has several key differences. It doesn&#39;t have to reload, and has a slightly shorter range (12"-48"), although for most smaller games this won&#39;t matter too much. In larger and multi-player (as in team games) games, you may begin to feel the bite, though.

It obviously fires a different round, being a different gun. At 6/4 with a large blast template (no, you&#39;re not firing four large blast templates... although I wish you could), this is a very good carapace-GEQ killer. Also, it&#39;s ORDNANCE.

This means two things.

A: -1 Leadership for pinning (not too useful overall, but still handy)
B: Ordnance makes killing vehicles a lot easier. Highest 2d6, anyone?

However, it might be simpler just to use a good ol&#39; Russ instead for plain out armor killing, as the low strength means that AV 13 and 14 can roll through unscathed. But don&#39;t discount indirect fire! This means that you can do some damage against Rhino Rush armies who hide their Rhinos in cover first turn. Watch your opponents face as his lovely Rhinos (well, the lovely units inside the coffins) get annilhated - literally! (A small test run proved that the low strength is offset by the 2d6, pick highest ordnance rule against light vehicles). Races with very weak vehicles (Eldar, for example) are also vulnerable - using the Eldar example, EVERYTHING can be hurt by a heavy mortar.

The heavy mortar also has slightly less area than a Thuddgun (6.25(pi), which is the pie plate), but that&#39;s perfectly fair as it is more powerful.

The sheer amount of hits mean that these weapons can hurt (but in no way, shape, or form destroy) MEQs, although there might be better options for them, such as AP3 battlecannon rounds.

Both of these big boys have some things in common.

They are both artillery pieces with 3 men, and are immobile without purchasing a Centaur utility vehicle to pull it around. (For those of you wondering, a Centaur can carry a Thuddgun/Heavy Mortar, its crewmen, has a front armor of 11 and 10 on others, and carries a heavy stubber for swatting flies. Moves like a fast vehicle empty, like a standard vehicle when loaded.) This shouldn&#39;t be a problem, although it may be handy - the Thuddgun may only fire two turns in a row at a time, and then spend a turn reloading (read: not shooting), so that turn could be used hauling it somewhere more useful. You can also move the mortar into range on a larger board.

You may also purchase up to two extra crewmen for the gun. Folks, in my opinion, never leave home without it.

If ONE stupid man bites the dust, with a pitiful leadership of 7, they are most likely going to flee, leaving behind the beautiful gun and having it counted as destroyed (that&#39;s how I think its going to work, it IS immobile, and you can&#39;t drag it with you). Taking only 1 extra doesn&#39;t help. But take both for a cheap cost of 12 points (6 per extra crewman), and avoid losing a 60 point piece due to a single stupid, lucky shot.

Now, bring in the big guns!

Edit: Whoops, HUGE typo.


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Old 03 Feb 2007, 09:22   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

[[[ I love the Mortars! I love the Heavy Mortars!, I love the Thudd-guns!
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 13:40   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

"Mortar Combat!" ;D

Anyway. I think the heavy mortars are a fantastic deal. Who wouldn&#39;t love having a battery of griffons for a single heavy slot?

And the Thudd Gun is great nostalgia. I want to see someone make a "squat guard" army with plenty of these now
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 15:10   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

Hey, I&#39;m going to be taking a tone of converted Thudds just for my regular guard!
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Old 03 Feb 2007, 16:26   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Heavy Mortars VS Mortars

Somebody needs to put a 0-1 choice on these things. Nine ordnance templates for 450 points! Nothing without a 2+ save has a chance. Take all nine then spend the other 550-1400 or so points in your army on plasma and lascannons. Maybe a bit of speed as well.
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