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Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?
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Old 30 Jan 2007, 11:42   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

Well, I'm toying with the idea of making an IG detachment to field alongside Tau. (Basucally Gue'la/Gue'vessa)

I'm thinking Drop Troops, Grenadiers, Carapace, Special Weapon Squads and Hardened Fighters for docterines (HF mainly just for the boost to Sentinels so they're comparable to battlesuits in melee) Though I might drop something to work Techpriests in...they;ll be handy with all the sentinels and they could be fun to model as some kind of specialist battlesuit

Anyhow, I'm thinking a couple of special weapon teams and a sentinel squad in the comand platoon, a couple stormie squads (probably on foot to save points and money) and then Sentinels for fast attack.

I want to field some taued up sentinels, modded with battlesuit bits and sich. It should be a lot of fun.

Unfortunately, most modding ideas would imply rather expensive vehicle options. Hardened Fighters (battlesuit arms), HKM (seeker missile), enclosed compartment (advanced tau-altered models should be more armored/enclosed), improved comms(postional relay), Lascannon (cut-down broadside railgun) etc.

I know on lightly armored non-skimmers, cheaper is better, but is it suicidally ineffective to have, say enclosed compartment, hardened fighters and a lascannon ona sentinel?

On a related note, what;s the best configuration for a sentinel? I was thinking one squad of close support (flamers and HF) and the rest as antitank (lascannon). Multilaser is good too, especially for infantry and light vehicles...but I'm not sure how much they;ll add when fielded next to burst cannons and the like
Any advice is welcome
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Old 30 Jan 2007, 16:30   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

You have an idea I had a long time ago and I've been using some of my free time looking at 'bending' rules to create a set of balanced house rules for a Gue'vessa attachment.

The trouble with sentinels and the Tau is that it may seam to the Tau that sentinels are a downgrade to their technology and so are not as effective as they could be.

The important thing to fluff is that Gue'vessa are not Guardsmen and so giving them all the perks of Guardsmen with a few additional Tau rules no longer makes them fluffy or balance to play. A big thing here is tanks, to the Tau they are inferior technology and so no Gue'vessa would have those resources procured for them.

When it comes to sentinels it seams a bit of a grey area. In my opinion I think the Tau would allow them to be toolled up, but not with all Guard weapons under the sun. Thus I think giving a lazcannon to a sentinel is going to far same as if you gave an Autocannon. However other weapons I think fit the Tau fluffy.

As for doctines. Fine I personally see the Tau as being quite good at training Gue'vessa. But again its those special weapons squads I don't think these fit the Tau very well. Fluffwise the Tau have to procure these weapons and so they are unlikely to be easy to get hold of. Oh and in my opinion, Techpreists? No, if you are going there then you are going to be taking the best of the best and thus is unbalanced, plus from a general fluff perspective it doesn't fit. The Tau don't worship the machine spirit or rever it. Arrgh the idea is Heresy!

Oh and if these are Tau trained Gue'vessa then CC is out the window. Remember its not right to give the Tau extra CC ability because you might as well take marines then. Live with the weaknesses.

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Old 30 Jan 2007, 19:23   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

I think you could justify everything, fluffwise, that you mentioned except for improved comms. Improved comms are crazy arrays that allow communications over many many miles. Every sentinel having them would just not make sense. Perhaps each squadron leader could have them but not each one.

Beyond fluff though, I think you'll almost be giving free victory points away to the enemy with these near-100 pointed vehicles. Because, let's face it, even with all those upgrades they're still not going to live very long.

Let's break it down:

Hardened fighters - you really shouldn't be taking this on a lascannon sentinel. The objective with a lascannon sent is to hang back and shoot down tanks, not to get up close and personal. Leave it for your heavy flamer or (possibly) multilaser sentinels. Plus, the Tau wouldn't bother (I think) trying to make the human's exactly like Broadsides.

Armoured Crew compartment - moderately useful. Not quite worth it's points, but given your fluff justification - I say you go for it.

As for weaponry, I like the multilaser variant. It can bust up light vehicles and put's the hurt on space marines as well (force those saves, homes!). Lascannon could be nice for you, but I imagine that with all those railguns hanging around you wouldn't really need more tankbusting power.

Maybe instead of thinking of ways that the Human Auxiliaries can be like Tau, you should think of ways that the Humans, acting like humans can complement the Tau.

For example the following I think would be very fluffy for a human auxiliary sentinel:

Catachan Pattern Sentinel
Camo Netting
Searchlight
Hardened Fighters

I think this guy makes sense because I see combat recon as exactly what sentinels would be expected to do as part of the Tau army. They would be the first elements (along with pathfinders and the like) to contact the enemy, flushing them out with their flamers and lighting up targets in night fight. Basically, this would be the result of the tau commander or the human auxilliaries themselves figuring out their ideal place in the Tau forces. I see that as close in fire and flamer support.
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Old 30 Jan 2007, 22:49   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

Tau would make Gue'la vehicles as minimalistic as possible. Armoured Crew Compartments would be the only real option, as keeping their soldiers alive is something that the Tau value.

Tau would not give Gue'la enough technology more advanced then the multilaser or autocannon.
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Old 31 Jan 2007, 04:03   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

Drop Troops? Guardsmen fighting alongside the tau using drop pods? From a corrupted imperial fleet or from uncompatible Tau motherships?
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Old 31 Jan 2007, 09:04   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

Archimede, Drop Troops is an IG docterine representing troopers and sentinels being deployed via grav chutes from dropships and the like. Not drop pods

In this case, theyd be loaded up into a Manta and dropped (via some form of disposable jetpack or tau grav chute) into combat in exactly the same manner as battlesuits and stealth suits. No drop pods, no imperial ships.

Genmotty, as for imperial tech...The fluff for the Gue'la docterines on the GW site says that the Tau equip them with imperial eqipment that they either produce, procure or purchase via black market. There's no reason for them not to have access to the whole IG armoury. No need to invent new rules or eqipment...the Tau probably wouldn't trust them with full-blown tau tech.

That said, there's no reason why you can't model them look more advanced. Tau body armor for carapace, lasguns fitted with carbine grenade launchers, the little sensor blocks you see on tau guns, maybe replace or modify the barrels to represent an improved Tau lasgun that some of the moer trusted troopers get (counts as Hellgun), cut down railgun as a lascannon, etc

Though I don't plan on using tanks just some stormies and sentinels

The modeler in me wants to go whole hog. Give them arms, covered compartments, HKMs, etc but I know that wouldn;t be sound...

Of course nothign says I can;t just put all that ctap on anyhow and just not pay the points for it (and therefore not actually have the upgrades)

Anyhow, I'd like to come up with something under a thousand points that'll employ at least a couple sentinel squadrons and (though it'll be used to support a tau force) is baanced enough to stand on its own.

I'm thinking the sentinels from the command platoon could be catachan pattern, heavy flamers, hardened fighters, enclosed cockpit (no cammo though since they'll be dropped in) maybe one multilaser and two flamers for some versitility. They'll drop in alongside the command platoon to act as close support.

After that, there's the stormies and perhaps two more sentinel squads. One kitted for long-range support (lascannons, maybe an HKM or two) and one for medium range all-purpose (multilasers, maybe HF, maybe not)

One sentinel in each of the two fast attack units should have improved comms to make dropping the HQ and the other sentnels a bit easier.

Here's what I've got in mind.

Command Platoon (605)
- Command Squad W/Junior Officer (Honoriffica, Storm Bolter, Refractor), 4 Plasma Guns, Carapace Armor. Drop Troopers
- Special Weapion Squad w/ 3 Meltaguns, Carapace. Drop Troopers
- Special Weapon Squad W/3 Meltaguns, Carapace. Drop Troopers
- 3x Sentinels, 2 w/ Flamer, 1 w/ML, Hardened Fighters, Armored Crew Compartments (x3) Improved Comms (x1), HKM (x3). Drop Troopers

The whole platoon will drop. The HKMs are there in hopes of scoring side armor hits as soon as they touch down. The sentinels are there for close support and assault, and to draw fire from the special weapon teams and command squad. Hopefully between them at least one unit will land close enough to rip up some tanks or high-priority armored infantry.

Troops 98
8x Grenadiers W/ 1 Plas & 1 GL

Troops 98
8x Grenadiers W/ 1 Plas & 1 GL

Fast 110
2x Sentinels w/ Lascannon

Fast 90
2x Sentinels w/ Multilas

I think I'll deploy these as scouts rather than dropping them

Comes to 1001 according to Army Builder

Focusses a lot on antitank, but it leaves me free to focus most of my tau list on antitroop (where we shine), maybe field an ionhead instead of a railhead (I'll still bring a pair of broadsides for fun) The deepstriking humans and sentinels will alto tie up enemy units and draw fire away from the tau units.
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Old 31 Jan 2007, 11:50   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

i think the tau would want the Gue'la/Gue'vessa to shoot from afar as they do
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Old 31 Jan 2007, 12:36   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

That's what the other sentinels and the grenadiers are for.

Meanwhile, the drop troops complement infiltrating stealth suits and deepstriking battlesuits.

Tau are mobile and designed to be drop-capable by and large. If they'll send Helios suits and stealth teams in for the close-in kill, I see no reason why they wou;dn;t send humans in to support them.
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Old 31 Jan 2007, 13:29   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

I would treat them the same as most light vehicles - minned down. Keep them right, and they will do their job without dying. Do it wrong, and you lose it, now if its a 60 point sentinel, not too bad, (example value) but if its a 100 point one, OUCH!

Keep them minned, and use them well.
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Old 31 Jan 2007, 17:43   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Sentinels: Geared up or minned down?

Quote:
Genmotty, as for imperial tech...The fluff for the Gue'la docterines on the GW site says that the Tau equip them with imperial eqipment that they either produce, procure or purchase via black market. There's no reason for them not to have access to the whole IG armoury. No need to invent new rules or eqipment...the Tau probably wouldn't trust them with full-blown tau tech.
I am fully aware of the GW fluff. Thats why a said 'procure'. I doubt the Tau would wish to give the Gue'vessa everything however well behaved they are. Remember that the Tau see Gue'la technology as inferior. Would a sensible tactician give the Gue'vessa inferior technology? It doesn't make much sense.

Taken to another side to the Tau procuring more 'high-tech' Imprial equipment would seam to them to be a bit of a waste of time for them. Lazguns etc. can be bought by the millions even over the black market. But meltas or unreliable plasma guns? Hmm, now you can see my point. I gun requires ammo as well. Primitive ammo again the Tau will have to procure and when stuff breaks it has to be replaced and with the Tau not having faster-than-light travel this takes time. Again plasma guns and meltas etc. are more difficult to replace.

Genmotty
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