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need an assault unit
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 04:13   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 210
Default need an assault unit

my guard army has plenty of infantry and tanks but I do not have an assault unit

I know that using the word assault for a guard army is laughable but I need a counter assault unit when enemy troops get near my lines

I was thinking of allies like Witch Hunter Arco Flagerents, but I would like to stick to the guard

what is better, Ogryns, Rough Riders, or tooled up engine seer with combat servitors
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 05:02   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Default Re: need an assault unit

There are other options as well... Vets with hidden powerfists, Demo Charge suicide bomber squads (desperation tactics), tooled up command squads (or the 4x Flamer command squad), Catachan pattern Sentinels (maybe with Armoured Crew Compartments and/or Hardened Fighters), a horde of Conscripts to throw into the grinder...

As for what is best, it depends on what flavor you want to add to your list. As long as you don't expect too much, then you'll probably be relatively satisfied by whatever you choose.
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 12:28   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: need an assault unit

to be honest i think a good counter charge unit wud be, a 50 man (or shud that be boy) strong platoon of conscripts, they can only kill so many in a turn, giving you time to move any valuble peices, like that bassie or russ, far enough away
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 14:58   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: need an assault unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishoneall
my guard army has plenty of infantry and tanks but I do not have an assault unit

I know that using the word assault for a guard army is laughable but I need a counter assault unit when enemy troops get near my lines

I was thinking of allies like Witch Hunter Arco Flagerents, but I would like to stick to the guard

what is better, Ogryns, Rough Riders, or tooled up engine seer with combat servitors
Rough Riders

When you think of assault of any kind in the Guard, it's the Rough Riders that should spring to mind. Nothing else in the list even compares to their punch for price. Engine seers are one of the last things you want to sink your points into. Allies would help, but seriously, even the very allies you speak of, use Rough Riders when they can! They're that good. Point per punch, you can't beat a squad of Rough Riders with lances. They move fast, as cavalry and perform counter assault like no other. When they hit, they hit like a ton of bricks. A small squad can break a Terminator unit in half. You can finish an assault from some Assault Marines. They're not going to win the fight against Gaunts or a horde of Orks, but against units that have good armor saves that you need to break in half fast, the Rough Riders are who can do it.

The key to assault is mobility. What's the use of a strong unit if it can't move fast enough to get into combat in the first place? You hear about all kinds of super assault units in other armies, like Grey Knights or Khorne Berzerkers and Assault Marines, but ask any tournament player who seriously uses Guardsmen units or plays with those units above and you'll find a correlation: Rough Riders. They're the answer to those hard units because you can literally cut them in half. That doesn't mean Rough Riders win the fight. They're just great at cutting your threat down to a manageable level. You can handle 1 or 2 Terminators, Marines, etc. Your guardsmen can't handle 10 marines on their own. But if your Rough Riders break them in half, you can deal with 4 marines or so. That's what Rough Riders do.

The Riders can follow vehicles, zip through terrain, or just camp out somewhere and when someone comes close and assaults you, that's when the Rough Riders show up. You don't spear head an assault unless you can help it. You want the counter assault, so that you can charge in, unload a heap of powerful attacks and kill some good armored bodies, and then let whatever unit they were assaulting to mop up the few models left.

Remember this: Strength 5, Initiative 5 Power Weapons.

6 to 8 Rough Riders, charging into your foe, will cause serious damage to high armor save infantry. This is what they're for.

-- If you want to add prolonged assault ability to your army, look no further than the Hardened Vets. An officer there can pick up a power fist and use it well. He's even more potent with an Honorifica. But a full squad of Vets with that buried Fist can do some good damage. However, they are not a substitute for Rough Riders.

If you want to fight weak infantry, like Hordes, then you need either (a) mass bodies like conscripts, or (b) good armor and quick killing speed to empty kill zones, like an allied unit from DH or WH.

Cheers!
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 18:21   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: need an assault unit

I would agree with MalVeauX for the rough riders...

As a counter assult unit those guys work really well. However if your opponent has got alot of 'big nasty stuff' e.g. Bloodthristers, Chaos lords, Chaplains, Assult termites I would go for putting meltas down with your standard guard. It may be expensive, but then without carapiece and using conscripts you've got the points to spend. Those meltas really put the fright in because they hurt da big guys.

If you are facing medium shock troops e.g. Assault marines, wraiths/flayed ones, stormboyz then yes the rough riders work really we combined with sentinels as support if there are more than one squad. Hopefully you can tie those troops down to be shot up.

If you are facing horde assault e.g. Gaunts, guard, kroot just pack in the troops and tie them up with large squads which don't die so quick...Flamers on conscripts work wonders... >
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 20:27   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Default Re: need an assault unit

the obvious choice to me would be ogryns or roughriders. the ogryns would need a chim to get somewhere useful, and the extra turn dismounting and not charging sort of restricts them. roughriders are good for 1 charge and will probably be slaughtered right afterwards.

really i think the best choice other than those specialist troops is to hide a veteran powerfist in a 10 man squad and give them close support special weaps like melta and flamer, give sarge an honorifica, a powerfist, and a chainsword he'll get the extra ccw attack, the charge attack, and all the attacks from the HSO statline - give them hard fighters doctrine on top of that and you have a nasty close combat unit with 9 meatshields to protect him. if you have enough commissars to fill your command squads, and have one left over, it's nice to attach one here as well. then you have 2 powerfists, both hidden by the other 9 guys in the squad

this squad will be expensive to include in an army but will be a deciding element of a game.

the points-miser option is the JO command squads equipped with 3 ccw/laspist guys and 2 flamer guys. some people seem to like the JO to have 4 flamers with him, but i believe that doesnt give you enough meat.

the big problem here is our meagre strength. you can get all the attacks and charge bonuses you want but if you cant wound anything well it is pointless.
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Old 24 Oct 2006, 22:13   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 210
Default Re: need an assault unit

thanks for the info guys, I like the Rough Riders or the tooled up veterans, I will probably go with the vets because it is such a pain in the arse to convert cool Riders.
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"If your soldiers show fear in the face of the Emperor's enemies, shoot the first man that falters. If this does not work shoot a man until the unit is either functioning properly or decimated. There can be no fear in the Imperial Guard."

----

Comment attributed to Commissar Ran Creed Attached to the Savlar 42nd

Status -- Killed by Friendly Fire
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Old 26 Oct 2006, 00:15   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Default Re: need an assault unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by shas o runil
to be honest i think a good counter charge unit wud be, a 50 man (or shud that be boy) strong platoon of conscripts, they can only kill so many in a turn, giving you time to move any valuble peices, like that bassie or russ, far enough away
Lol i tend to agree with this (not saying rough riders are bad), but it would not only be funni to watch an opponents face when you see 50 odd conscripts all with chem inhalers counter charging the enemy backed up by a pw wielding commissar... Lol that'd show them glory boyz....

Anyways if thats even possible...

From across the table

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