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Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 15:28   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

I have been toying around with a tyranid list recently - cause I have the models and they hadn't been doing anything. I converted up a Hive Tyrant with wings.

Over the weekend, I played a cities of death game against a Cadian army. My opponent had been playing guard for several years, and didn't make the typical newbie mistakes. No over-spending on upgrades, decent unit selection. The only problem his army really had was that he had taken the "favorite heavy weapon/favorite special weapon" bit from the codex to heart. He had plenty of grenade launchers spread through the army, rockets and autocannons spread between units, and heavy bolter teams.

I had taken the Warp Field power for my tyrant, giving it a 2+ save, over a 6 Toughness.

My raveners died during the game - such is the nature of sending a lone model into a squad. And my two venom-cannon fexes killed his demolisher on turn 2. Other than that, the only model I used was the tyrant.

What weapons he had that had the strength to wound it (at T6) didn't have the penetrating power to get past the 2+ save. Even leaving the tyrant out-of-combat at the end of rounds (when it massacred a squad, but was unable to consolidate to the next), it wasn't taking damage.


Had the rockets in the army been lascannons, and the grenade launchers been plasma guns, one single model would not have run rampant through his army, and it would have been a much more interesting fight. Assuming the same rolls, my tyrant would have been dead on turn 2 or 3, and his men would not have ended up locked in one combat to the next, allowing them to focus fire on the slower wave of bugs.


The point being made is that as a guard player, you need to have both high strength AND low AP guns. High strength may be ok against 90% of the armies you play, with the ability to knock out enemy armour and inflict wounds on 3+ save models. But, if you're making an army that wants to be able to stand up against any opponent it meets, that's not going to be enough. A lascannon can do everything a rocket launcher can do. A rocket launcher cannot do everything a lascannon can do. A plasma gun can do everything a grenade launcher can do. A grenade launcher cannot do everything a plasma gun can do. Plan accordingly.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 15:49   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

This is a good point... it makes me want to take out my 'nade launchers since they never seem to do enough anyway.

Thank-you.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 16:08   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

now lets say you'd taken loads of gaunts and a warrior trio instead of a pumped up tyrant. Ever seen what a lascannon does to a gaunt? same bloody thing a heavy bolter does but three times less often and for over twice the price.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 17:46   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

I agree with Elessar. Every weapon in IG is due in the moderation.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 18:49   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

My current theory on guard heavy armament is that some lascannons should be taken for dealing with big behemoths, but that heavy bolters, autocannons and missile launchers are probably the "staple" weapons.

Of course this is just my theoretical opinion
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 19:01   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

I didn't say you don't need other guns, however, in the face of gaunts, lasguns will actually kill a good number of them, and the guardsmen have half a chance in combat. Not true against a Tyrant.

But I don't think I said anything about dropping heavy bolters, or even autocannons (though I rarely take more than 1 autocannon, but always take one). It's about the difference between rockets and lascannons, grenades and plasma. With the changes to the blast marker placement rules, you're unlikely to get more than one kill (against a competent opponent) with a grenade launcher or a rocket launcher.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 19:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

Oh I know, I just wanted to present my theory of things. I meant the post as more of a support of needing to have a few lascannons around, but not so many that you dont have enough of the other weapons to do the job against infantry and such
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 20:57   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard

A lascannon can do everything a rocket launcher can do.
While that may be true if you are trying to take down a tank, lascannons are not nearly effective against troops.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 21:26   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

Just going to throw in my $.02 here.

I'm a Tau player (don't hit me!) and when I was first getting my army started I had made several decisions

1) I wasn't going to use a lot of battle suits

and

2) High AP is for suckers. Weight of fire will win out and they'll fail those saves eventually!

Well I quickly caved on point 1 after modelling/painting/playing with some suits.

However point 2 took me much longer to change. Against marines you can rely on them failing their saves eventually so AP 3 weapons aren't critical unless dealing with fast moving squads like Bikes or assault marines.

However playing against chaos and nids I've come to realize something that flys, has a 2+ save and ungodly combat power is just to hard to stop with out high ap.

Weight of fire simply isn't enough to punch through a 2+ save when a fast moving Toughness 6 combat behemoth is rushing your lines.

You don't need to overload on the high ap weapons, but keeping a couple of them on standby isn't a bad idea.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 22:22   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why you DO need lascannons and plasma guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chugmuffin
While that may be true if you are trying to take down a tank, lascannons are not nearly effective against troops.
Ok, why don't you explain that to me. Because apparently, I don't get it. How is a rocket launcher, under 4th ed rules, where if your opponent has half a brain, they spread their troops out so that small blast markers NEVER hit more than one model, any more effective than a lascannon against troops?
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