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How to protect against melee
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 16:39   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default How to protect against melee

With IG it seems that the biggest problem people fact is the fast that assault rapes ig players this simply isnt true.

Your best options to counter assaults are .
1.Tankshock make the enemy run backwards duh even chims are decent for this.
2.Khorne should never be a problem for gaurd. Lure them into attacking tanks.
3.Use a frount line to protect your units 10 gaurdsmen spread out 20'' to protect your weaker units from assault works pretty well. and seeing as its very unusual for an opponent to bring 10 man squads nowadays means that atleast 1 man will be outside the killzone and he will run away like a bat out of hell.
4.Counter assault. ogrens and roughriders work well.
5. all else fails mount up and get the hell away.

Hope this helps the people who were having trouble with fast melee armies.
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 17:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by º¥ºAlphaMaleº¥º
Your best options to counter assaults are .
1.Tankshock make the enemy run backwards duh even chims are decent for this.
If your opponent doesn't have anything that could blow up said tank. They get a free hit, afterall. Plus, tank shock doesn't necessarily make them run backwards, they can sidestep your tank, so you'ld need to do this with enough tanks to prevent that. All-in-all, not the best solution.

Quote:
2.Khorne should never be a problem for gaurd. Lure them into attacking tanks.
A statured daemonprince gets 2d6 penetration as a monstrous creature. Most khorne players run powerfists on aspiring champions too. Ok, so you lure them into attacking your tanks, and then you have no more tanks.

Quote:
3.Use a frount line to protect your units 10 gaurdsmen spread out 20'' to protect your weaker units from assault works pretty well. and seeing as its very unusual for an opponent to bring 10 man squads nowadays means that atleast 1 man will be outside the killzone and he will run away like a bat out of hell.
Yeah, cause, you know, orks and tyranids don't run assault hordes... I'd actually rather keep everyone inside the killzone, because that way, your enemy assault units will kill everything, and leave them exposed to return fire. You always run the risk of the guardsman outside the killzone getting a sudden case of heroics and staying in the assault, preventing your opponent from being shot on your turn, and then dying, giving them the ability to roll into the next squad. Spread out, yes. But, not too much, you want your front line to die and expose the enemy, not to accidentally hold.

Quote:
4.Counter assault. ogrens and roughriders work well.
Rough riders are a solid counter-assault unit. Ogryns are good against most xenos, but leave a lot to be desired against marines. Rough riders can also cover more ground, so they're more likely to be where you need them. Ogryns usually just convince the enemy assault units to attack the other side of your field.

Quote:
5. all else fails mount up and get the hell away.
Well, sure, if you're playing mech. I don't think you'll have enough transports otherwise.



Overall, I think options 3 and 4 are the viable ones here. There is another possibility; conscript tarpit them. Slowly feed a large unit of conscripts into the assault, just to watch them die. Make sure you have a nearby leadership bubble, so they don't break, and you can keep an enemy assault unit tied up for a good number of turns. This works better against solo, or small, assault units, as larger ones will kill the conscripts too fast. But, against something like a wraithlord, you can probably tie it up all game.
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 17:35   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

I think the best way to counter assault armies is to place your troops correctly. When I play I maximize spacing plus I make sure I put 1-2 guardsman at the front of the squad the full 2" away from the rest of the squad. When I get charged the main element of my force is 8" away from the opponent so 90% of the time only my 2 front guardsmen get engaged in combat. When I get killed, I have no models in base to base so when I roll the leadership for losing the combat I usually fail and run. Because I have no models in base to base my opponent cannot sweeping advance them and consolidates 3". My next squad is 3.5" away from the squad breaking from combat which means the assault unit is now in front of my entire shooting force. With ID my fleeing unit rallies and adds their fire power. usually results in a lot of dead CC units with only 2 guardsmen sacrificed
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 18:01   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

That's not a bad plan, but what happens when your guardsmen don't break, and all pile in, only to be cut down on your opponent's turn, leaving him free to make another move&assault.

Relying on a single morale test, either passed or failed, is a good way to lose games. Dice do odd things when least expected. I'd rather lose a front-line squad (60 points) completely, and be assured of being able to fire on my opponent's assault squad with everything else, than lose only 2 men, but risk them staying in assault, and rolling up my lines.
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 18:04   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

I simply keep the tanks between my men and the enemy. let him hit the tank's AV14 and try his luck. If he wins, my guys assault around the hulk and get their licks in on a part of his squad. If he misses the tank, it pulls back 6" and adds battlecannon fire to the rapid firing squad and flamer template.

It works, I just take many casualties. But hey, you knew that was part of IG, right? Casualties?

W
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 18:13   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
That's not a bad plan, but what happens when your guardsmen don't break, and all pile in, only to be cut down on your opponent's turn, leaving him free to make another move&assault.

Relying on a single morale test, either passed or failed, is a good way to lose games. Dice do odd things when least expected. I'd rather lose a front-line squad (60 points) completely, and be assured of being able to fire on my opponent's assault squad with everything else, than lose only 2 men, but risk them staying in assault, and rolling up my lines.
Well that usually doesn't happen as my ld is only 7. I don't use the vox when forced to make these checks. I then use the vox to rally.

Should I make my check then I have to adjust the plans. Usually this means charging every other squad within 6-8" into the melee. With this tactic add about 20-30 models to the fight. I get 60+ attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 4-5+ which means about 15 armor saves against T3 armies and about 10 against T4 armies. This usually decimates the CC unit attacking me and I win the combat, outnumber and either force them to break or do more casualties if they are fearless.
If I pile
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 18:18   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

For dealing with Khorne, I'd place an expendable Chimera loaded w/ nothing but flamers in the center of the board, and wait until it gets rushed. Have it move about 12 inches each turn so that enemies must charge it but only hit on a 6+. Laugh as they do minimal damage, and laugh at how the enemy bunched themselves up for Battlecannon shelling.
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 18:24   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
For dealing with Khorne, I'd place an expendable Chimera loaded w/ nothing but flamers in the center of the board, and wait until it gets rushed. Have it move about 12 inches each turn so that enemies must charge it but only hit on a 6+. Laugh as they do minimal damage, and laugh at how the enemy bunched themselves up for Battlecannon shelling.
Thats a tough tactic to rely on conisdering each berserker gets 4 or 5 attacks on the charge and they don't have to attack the front armor if they can reach the sides. They are str 5 on the charge which means they can penetrate your sider armor even if they need 6's to hit.
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 18:35   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Guard Or Go Home
Well that usually doesn't happen as my ld is only 7. I don't use the vox when forced to make these checks. I then use the vox to rally.
But you only lost 2 models, so with 8 remaining, you're not under half strength, and if you're outnumbered, it's probably not by too much, if at all. A seven is more likely to pass a Ld test than to fail one, and even a six passes 40% of the time.

Quote:
Should I make my check then I have to adjust the plans. Usually this means charging every other squad within 6-8" into the melee. With this tactic add about 20-30 models to the fight. I get 60+ attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 4-5+ which means about 15 armor saves against T3 armies and about 10 against T4 armies. This usually decimates the CC unit attacking me and I win the combat, outnumber and either force them to break or do more casualties if they are fearless.
If I pile
That works, maybe, depending on the initiative of the attackers, and how much of their killzone they empty before you swing.

You know, assuming your opponent is a unit of eight non-upgraded genestealers. They're going to hit you with 16 rending attacks before you even swing, and (skipping the math) drop six or seven guardsmen before you swing. If you charged with 30 models, you're down to 23, but, realistically, 30 models don't all fit in the killzone against 8 stealers, so you're more likely to have about 16 models that can fight, and you lost six of them. The remaining 10, with their 20 attacks, inflicted 3 wounds, and killed 2 stealers. You lost combat, and, depending on the morale tests, stand to have them all cut down.

It's better than waiting to get cut down, that's for sure, but, I'd still rather lose my initial 60 points and be sure than all those other squads in range could fire, rather than charge. Rapid-fire lasguns are as dangerous as assaulting guardsmen, and you don't get hit back, or hit back first, or lose any models, and you get to throw your heavy weapon fire in too.
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Old 26 Apr 2006, 20:00   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to protect against melee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Guard Or Go Home
Well that usually doesn't happen as my ld is only 7. I don't use the vox when forced to make these checks. I then use the vox to rally.
But you only lost 2 models, so with 8 remaining, you're not under half strength, and if you're outnumbered, it's probably not by too much, if at all. A seven is more likely to pass a Ld test than to fail one, and even a six passes 40% of the time.

Quote:
Should I make my check then I have to adjust the plans. Usually this means charging every other squad within 6-8" into the melee. With this tactic add about 20-30 models to the fight. I get 60+ attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 4-5+ which means about 15 armor saves against T3 armies and about 10 against T4 armies. This usually decimates the CC unit attacking me and I win the combat, outnumber and either force them to break or do more casualties if they are fearless.
If I pile
That works, maybe, depending on the initiative of the attackers, and how much of their killzone they empty before you swing.

You know, assuming your opponent is a unit of eight non-upgraded genestealers. They're going to hit you with 16 rending attacks before you even swing, and (skipping the math) drop six or seven guardsmen before you swing. If you charged with 30 models, you're down to 23, but, realistically, 30 models don't all fit in the killzone against 8 stealers, so you're more likely to have about 16 models that can fight, and you lost six of them. The remaining 10, with their 20 attacks, inflicted 3 wounds, and killed 2 stealers. You lost combat, and, depending on the morale tests, stand to have them all cut down.

It's better than waiting to get cut down, that's for sure, but, I'd still rather lose my initial 60 points and be sure than all those other squads in range could fire, rather than charge. Rapid-fire lasguns are as dangerous as assaulting guardsmen, and you don't get hit back, or hit back first, or lose any models, and you get to throw your heavy weapon fire in too.
1. You would be surprised how often I fail LD 7.

2. Thats assuming 8 genestealers vs 28 Guardsmen engage in combat.

8 GeneStealers (x2) = 16 attacks...10 hit...7 wound...5 Guardsman die (statistically speaking)

20 Guardsmen Charging + Sgt with 2cc wpns= 42 attacks
2 Guardsmen left from casualties + Sgt with 2cc wpns= 4 attacks
Total attacks= 46....23 hit....8 wound...5 GeneStealers die
Tyranid Points Killed=90 pts...IG Points lost=30pts
Combat result= Draw

60 Guardsmen Charging + Sgt with 2cc wpns= 63 attacks
2 Guardsmen left from casualties + Sgt with 2cc wpns= 4 attacks
Total attacks= 67....38 hit....13 wound...9 GeneStealers die
Tyranid Points Killed=144 pts...IG Points lost=30pts
Combat result= IG win...outnumber 4-1, below 50% imposes -5 LD to nids or 3 extra wounds

3. If i had my lap top I can show you how to fit 30 models in a swirling melee. With 12" of movement it isn't hard to get your chargers either in base to base or within 2" of a model in base to base.

4. It works for me and having gone 8-0 with my IG army since I created it so this isn't a one time wonder thing so far.
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