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Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 16:21   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

I just freaked myself out and need some advise.
I'm creating myself a mechanised army from a planet near the Maelstrom. Since it was at the gates of hell so to speak I decided to go for a gatekeeper to hell based fluff IE the planet is called Janus and the regiment is commonly referred to as the Cerberas.

I gave the mech force a general WW2 theme (for use with steel legion/krieg models) and decided to put a symbol on all of the vehicles (like the German Teutonic cross) for effect. Being one of 4 great mech divisions i named them the 2nd. And here my trouble starts.

I found a rune that symbolises death: perfect I thought. then to top it all a version of it was called the wolfrune and was associated with werewolves (demonic dogs-Cerberus, right?)

Then I discover that this is used by neo-Nazi organisations as well (now this is spooky) by the 2nd SS panzer division Das Reich. Apparently if used in any political form this rune is illegal in germany.

Here are two links: please read and advise me if i can use them. I think they fit perfectly, but i think the 2nd armoured division connection may make people suspicious.

http://www.dasreich.ca/divisional.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 16:47   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Hmm, well GW does discourage use of Nazi symbols and won't let you play at tourney with them. These are a bit more obscure and had you not supplied the link I would have thought it more Norse. Maybe instead of using the Teutonic cross and the German themes try looking at some of thearmies that fought in the war, either from the Scandinavian countries or given the name of your army, Greece.
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 16:50   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Considering the Steel Legion symbol is virtually identical to the SS symbol, I doubt you've got anything to worry about... it's not like you're trying to rally support for the BNP or anything, you're just using what looks cool.

The rune looks a lot like something you'd see in a Dwarf / Space Wolf army...
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 17:16   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

We have to start taking our symbols back some time. While the Swastika is common enough to cause problems, I doubt anyone will give you grief about this one. Especially if you can honestly claim that the similarity was unintentional.
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 17:23   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
The rune looks a lot like something you'd see in a Dwarf / Space Wolf army...
like I said, I would have thought it Norse without the links.

As siad, probably fine and if you honestly have that many worries about it, alter your theme just a bit or show the symbol around and tell them what it's for and see what they think.
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 17:38   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
We have to start taking our symbols back some time. While the Swastika is common enough to cause problems, I doubt anyone will give you grief about this one. Especially if you can honestly claim that the similarity was unintentional.
Ah....but the tilted one is the nazi opne. The non-tilted one is the symbol of buddhism. Funny how things are similiar but they aren't the same thing at all.

The wolfsangel.........similiar stuff. The nazi one is with a slash on the rune. The non-nazi one is withouit the slash. But now it is known as one of the symbols of fascism.
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 17:47   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

The teutonic cross is german, not nazi. not letting someone play because of it could be considered racist, as it is a symbol of germany.

the runes are just that, runes. if those are considered racist then every dwarf and space wolf army would aswell. simply becuase the nazi's used them does not make them a nazi symbol.

the swastica on the other hand is a nazi symbol. it is the official symbol for the nazi political party, and its use is thus reserved to represent nazis.
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 17:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Thanks Guys. I'll drop the Teutonic Cross. Its a bit too much I think. I'll come up with something else.
As for the rune thing I think I'll keep it. It has a nice gothic feel to it. Like I said I got worried when I saw it on the 2nd (and my army is the 2nd).

Quote:
Ah....but the tilted one is the nazi opne. The non-tilted one is the symbol of buddhism. Funny how things are similiar but they aren't the same thing at all.
You have no idea, I've spent the last hour researching this and came up with a lot of weird stuff:
for insance if clockwise it is represents evil and if counterclockwise it represent good (guess which hitler chose)
and that it is an important symbol in judaism (mother of all ironies).

Thanks
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 17:54   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Yeah, that's right. But it is the symbol of judaism? I'm suprised.
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Old 09 Apr 2006, 18:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible Racist Symbolism - Please advise

Yes, alot of symbols are basicly corruptions of other things.

Pentagram, actually a ward against evil. It was used through out the middle ages and even in the early US as a ward against demons and the evil eye. The fact that it is to keep out/contain a demon is where it mistakenly got it's satanic connection. Has both pagan and christian connections. For christian the five points represent the five wounds of Christ(both wrists, feet, spear wound in side).

Swastika, actually a symbol meaning strength. As previously mentioned is also a symbol common in Buddhism. Actually was a bit of a cuffufle a few years back when a kinder suprise toy (made in Malaysia I think) was a panda witha swastika on it's belly. The joys of cross culture shock.

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