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Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 15:11   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Which do you prefer and why? It seems like Sentinels are cheap, and you pack a lot of them into a reasonable sized army. I see a lot of people taking support squads (not sentinel support squads obviously), and I was wondering if there is a specific reason why they aren't taking sentinels.
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 15:35   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Well lets look at the numbers.

3 Sentinels with lascannons = 165 pts

So for 165 pts you have 3 lascannon shots that will hit 50% of the time. The vehicles count as open topped and with the lowest AV there is in the game any str 4 weapon has a chance to bring them down. The benefits is you have a mobile weapons platform that can move and shoot every turn and readjust to conter the enemy movements

1 Anti-tank Squad (lascannons) = 110 pts

For 55 pts less you have the same 3 lascannon shots that still hit 50% of the time. The infantry can deploy into cover which gives them anywhere from a 3+ to a 6+ cover save against attacks and you have 3 meat shields (guardsmen with lasguns) to lose as casualties before losing the lascannons

The added benefit of the support squad is to upgrade them to sharpshooters and get to reroll 1's on the to hit roll. This still puts the squad 45 pts below the cost of the sentinels and means you will hit more often then the sentinels will

The downside is the unit is very static and cannot respond as effectively to movements of the enemy which means they can be outmaneuvered.

I personnaly think Sentinels do better with autocannons or multi-lasers acting as anti-infantry or light armor hunters over tank hunters. But I hope this helps
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 15:55   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Problem with both units is that they will be picked on.They are an easy source of vps to be honest.A support squad will be high on anyones target list, sents depend on there weapon config.Give them a lascannon and they wont last long since they will be shot at.A cheap weapon config with sents seems best and in single units.

As for which one is best, out of two bad options id probably go with the support squad.
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 16:13   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Spawn
As for which one is best, out of two bad options id probably go with the support squad.
I wouldn't be so bold to say that both options are bad ones. They both have their uses and are effective units in their own right.

If you hang 3 lascannons on Sentinels yes you will draw a lot of fire power which will most likely knock them down and out, however any player who sends his Sentinels up the middle of the board deserves to lose the squad. The thing with guard is that we have greater range then most armies on the board. With a proper amount of terrain you can screen Sentinels from enemy fire take a few shots and if need be charge them into combat with a squad and not only do you block los through them but you might take a few 4+ Armor Save models in the process. Only marines and necrons have str 4 models in large numbers so that leaves Eldar, IG, Tau, Orks, Sisters, Nids etc as viable options.

I do believe Sentinels do better when armed with autocannons/multilasers as I said. More shots = more wounds = more casualties..

As for the support squad drawing fire, absolutely they do but the key is not deploying them where they draw a lot of fire. Lascannons have a 48" range which means you should be able to shoot them at a range where they can't be hit back for at least a turn or 2. Secondly always use Terrain to your effect. Stick them out in the open and you deserve to lose them like the Sentinels. Put them in 4+ cover and it will take a lot of hits to get them out of there. I have had great success with my 2 anti-tank squads, and have not lost an entire squad yet. By the time your support squads are in range of mass firepower the enemy is in range of yours and you probably have dealt with the heavy armor and 2+ armor saves by then.

Besides support squads are the IG most efficient source of heavy weapons. I don't believe in putting HW in infantry squads but to say both are bad options is such a carte blanche statement with no evidence to support it
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 16:44   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Thing with both options is that you are assuming terrain will be in your deployment zone and in a nice ideal position.

Of course you can if there is no terrain hide both units behind a tank and move the tank in your turn.But imo both units will only get one shot before there blown away.

On a standard board it should be quite easy to target them as well from turn one.The support squad even if in cover of some kind will probably get enough attention it wont last long.

Of course the same is to be said of most guard squads but the difference here is that the support or sents stick out so much and are an easier way to get vps.A glasscannon I believe is the word im looking for.

A sent with multi laser is probably best since it wont get too much attention, but one with a lascannon will probably get one shot at glory.

edit:

I probably should give an alternitive I suppose to back my statement, for anti tank line squads with a lascannon and plasma gun arent bad once multiple squads are taken.

Also deep striking vets with meltas as a suicide unit are fairly cheap and effective.

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Old 01 Apr 2006, 17:44   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Thanks for the feedback! Have any of you tried a 12 Sentinel Army? 12 Sentinels with autocannons is a lot of shooting on the run.
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 20:46   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

it has indeed been done. it was quite a list too.

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=8515.0
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Old 01 Apr 2006, 23:57   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith Spawn
Problem with both units is that they will be picked on.They are an easy source of vps to be honest.A support squad will be high on anyones target list, sents depend on there weapon config.Give them a lascannon and they wont last long since they will be shot at.A cheap weapon config with sents seems best and in single units.

As for which one is best, out of two bad options id probably go with the support squad.
This is the Imperial Guard we are talking about. We have LOTS of squads to put to use. A single puny support squad is only a tiny dispensable cog in the machine.
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Old 02 Apr 2006, 16:06   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Not really, if you think about it how many squads do you really have dedicated to anti tank?Expendable in my opinion is a role you give to a specific unit, not nearly everyone in your army no matter what army eg. conscripts and kroot are examples of units that are designed to die.

And giving easy pts generally adds up.



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Old 02 Apr 2006, 18:44   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Sentinel Lascannon Vs. Support Squad Lascannon

Generally I use neither units :P, but that's probably because of the fact that I've got an mechanized army. This means that all my infantry squads got lascannons to do the anti-tank work and my chimera's do all the anti-infantry work.

But back to the topic at hand, I would choose of both worlds. Both unts have their advantages and disadvantages. Sentinels are much more mobile and sometimes can get a good side view of a tank, also these guys are great for capturing table quarters (and yes my sentinels do sometimes last long enough for that ).
Anti-tank support squads on the other hand are much more cheaper points wise and can get much better protection through the form of cover.
Both these units are likely to get picked on and are both easily destroyed unless you are very carefull with them.
It's actually more up to you which advantages you like more.

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