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this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts
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Old 10 Jan 2006, 04:19   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

I have been tooling around with the Army Builder program while looking at my fig options. I have about 2500 guard if I use my Inquisitor ally and his assassin buddy, and all my models, (and if I waste a lot of points on useless upgrades), but I have been tinkering with 1000 point and 1250 point armies on this program and just playing the numbers.

I like to play with smaller armies because it restricts your opponents access to vast forces of overwhelming power troops and emphasizes my advantage in cheapness.

I normally try to squeeze in as much as I can, but this one is designed around a theme of "SO MANY HEAVY WEAPONS IT MAKES ME GIDDY" This is probably such a cheesy (beardy? I dunno I'm not English) army that I could be shot for wasting time as badly as this:

HQ:
JOcommand, 1 irrelevant ccw/laspistol officer,
4 grenade launcher guardsmen (72 pts)
3 lascannon teams (110 pts)
3 missile launcher teams (95 pts)
3 autocannon teams (95 pts)
3 mortar teams (80 pts)
-----------------------452pts

ouch.
remember this is a 1000 point army.
thats a lot of heavy weapons.



troops:
20 conscripts to stand in the way (80 pts)

armored fist - add a melta gun to the squad (70 pts+89 for the chim)
my chim is armed with a couple of hvy flams and smoke lnchrs
just ride around and shoot yer melta gun from the top hatch. its fun.

--------691 score so far

LEMAN w lascannon, extra armor

(160 pts)


5 deep strike stroops with 2 plasma guns
(75 pts)


3 ogryns to countercharge, or stand in the way of all the weapon teams as necessity arises.
(75 pts)


------grand total 1001 points. stick that extra point in there just so they KNOW i am powergaming

anybody objects and I'll just drop a gren lnchr to a flamer or something, but I doubt if anyone will care about my point.

this army is probably just plain ridiculous, but I am taking it to battle on wednesday and I will repost after I see how it does. The dice gods will probably smack me with bad luck for "min-max"ing so badly, but my opponent is hovertank-with-railgun fanatic, so maybe I can sleep well despite thinking up a force like this.
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Old 10 Jan 2006, 18:06   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

I think it's brilliant :P admitedley a little [size=40pt]BEARDY[/size], but I think it could win, as long as you hide your infantry :P sit back and say to the tau 'who has all the firepower now?'

- Kais
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Old 10 Jan 2006, 23:00   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

it is illegal.... you cannot take Conscripts unless you have a normal infantry platoon, you cannot take armoured fist squads unless you take a normal infantry platoon.

and how are you getting the 5 deepstriking troops? if it is a remnant squad then YOU HAVN'T GOT ANY NORMAL PLATOONS!!! and if it is a special weapon squad you havn't got any spaces left for them.

and to deep strike you need doctrines, yet i cannot see any noted down at all.
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Old 10 Jan 2006, 23:36   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

get rid of the conscripts and AF squad, both ilegal. get an infantry platoon and some other troop choice(got any grenadiers?) give the chimy to the ogryns.

Tefnik: the deepstrikers are stormtroopers(see the S infront of troopers? i missed it at first too) dont need doctrines to deepstrike them.
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Old 11 Jan 2006, 00:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

Thanks for the clear up with the conscripts. I guess the GW Armies-of-the-Imperium software isn't as well programmed about those kinds of particulars as I thought, because it seemed to think that my list was legal.

so I drop the conscripts (-80)
and get an inf platoon? (+160) I usually switch all the command squad to laspistol/ccw so I have a pathetic attempt at a countercharge for no extra points.

and have to make up the rest of the 80 points somehow.
I will probably get rid of the Ogryns and dumb down an autocannon to a heavy bolter... not much change.

I only have 1 chim model and I need it for the AF to fill up my troops requirement, and everybody seems to advise me that ogryns need a chim, so I guess they are the most logical choice to eliminate.... only 3 of them anyways. This way I get to keep all my big guns and only lose 3 models. I guess the BS3 is a bit better for my lasgunners, but it's a shame about the conscripts ruling. Those figs were just supposed to get in the way anyways but now they cost a bit more... the ccw command squad from an Inf platoon isn't much compared to the Ogres, but it can kind of play the same kind of role in my army, so I guess the "upgrade" isn't that detrimental to my overall plan.

One more thing, and I'm sorry about the confusion, I usually refer to guardsmen as guards and stormtroopers as stroops - just jargon for faster typing (yeah who is this 'Jo' person who keeps showing up in command squads? - same kind of thing) I thought that would be self evident since they deep strike and carry a pair of special weapons in a 5-man squad, but perhaps it was mistaken for a typo. They are stormtroopers. stroops. gloryboys. krunchyskins. etc.

Still I think despite dumping the Ogryns and switching the conscripts to infantry I figure this is still the best vehicle killing army I can put together for these points. Beardy? definitely. Minmax? definitely. I wish we lived in a world where all players played fun armies so these power-tactics weren't necessary, but when was the last time anybody payed for a psyker WITHOUT an honourifica? Or a single mortar in an infantry squad? I think my next project will be to design and play the silliest "full of character" army I can just to make up for it. 8) We'll just wait and see.

Again, thanks for clarifying me about the conscripts. Still learning.
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Old 11 Jan 2006, 09:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

yeah...for each conscript platoon or armored fist squad that you take, you must take a standard IG platoon...effectively making them a 1+ choice.

As for how to ammend the list...I would drop the ogryns (they only need a chimera to attack...for countercharge purposes, they would be fine dismounted...but they really don't fit the list)and the extra armor on the russ (it shouldn't ever move anyway, so it's a useless upgrade), freeing up exactly 80 points...enough to upgrade the conscript platoon to a standard platoon.

Furthermore, I would drop the grenade launchers, make that command squad (both of them, actually) laspistol/ccw all the way across. This frees up 32 points while giving you ten weak speedbumps out in front of the heavy weapons. Use the 32 points to put a pair of missile launchers in the line platoon...



HQ:
command squad with ccw/laspistols all around (40)
3 lascannon teams (110 pts)
3 missile launcher teams (95 pts)
3 autocannon teams (95 pts)
3 mortar teams (80 pts)


troops:


HQ squad with laspistol/ccw all around
(40)

Line squad with missile launcher
(70)

Line squad with missile launcher
(70)


armored fist - add a melta gun to the squad (70 pts+89 for the chim)
my chim is armed with a couple of hvy flams and smoke lnchrs
just ride around and shoot yer melta gun from the top hatch. its fun.



LEMAN w lascannon,
(155 pts)


5 deep strike stroops with 2 plasma guns
(75 pts)


999 points.
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Old 12 Jan 2006, 02:51   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

Quote:
Originally Posted by squigs for dinner
I have been tooling around with the Army Builder program while looking at my fig options. I have about 2500 guard if I use my Inquisitor ally and his assassin buddy, and all my models, (and if I waste a lot of points on useless upgrades), but I have been tinkering with 1000 point and 1250 point armies on this program and just playing the numbers.

I like to play with smaller armies because it restricts your opponents access to vast forces of overwhelming power troops and emphasizes my advantage in cheapness.

I normally try to squeeze in as much as I can, but this one is designed around a theme of "SO MANY HEAVY WEAPONS IT MAKES ME GIDDY" This is probably such a cheesy (beardy? I dunno I'm not English) army that I could be shot for wasting time as badly as this:

HQ:
JOcommand, 1 irrelevant ccw/laspistol officer,
4 grenade launcher guardsmen (72 pts)
3 lascannon teams (110 pts)
3 missile launcher teams (95 pts)
3 autocannon teams (95 pts)
3 mortar teams (80 pts)
-----------------------452pts

ouch.
remember this is a 1000 point army.
thats a lot of heavy weapons.



troops:
20 conscripts to stand in the way (80 pts)

armored fist - add a melta gun to the squad (70 pts+89 for the chim)
my chim is armed with a couple of hvy flams and smoke lnchrs
just ride around and shoot yer melta gun from the top hatch. its fun.

--------691 score so far

LEMAN w lascannon, extra armor

(160 pts)


5 deep strike stroops with 2 plasma guns
(75 pts)


3 ogryns to countercharge, or stand in the way of all the weapon teams as necessity arises.
(75 pts)


------grand total 1001 points. stick that extra point in there just so they KNOW i am powergaming

anybody objects and I'll just drop a gren lnchr to a flamer or something, but I doubt if anyone will care about my point.

this army is probably just plain ridiculous, but I am taking it to battle on wednesday and I will repost after I see how it does. The dice gods will probably smack me with bad luck for "min-max"ing so badly, but my opponent is hovertank-with-railgun fanatic, so maybe I can sleep well despite thinking up a force like this.
Not only do you have 48 heavy weapons in this army, but you STILL had enough points left over for a Leman fething Russ!

Whoever wrote and approved a Codex that would allow this is beyond imbecilic. They're just plain retarded.

New rule, to fix it then.

THAT'S JUST FETHING WRONG!: An Imperial Guard army may not have more models with heavy or special weapons than models with Lasguns. This is to represent the fact that if they could, they'd be the cheapest army in the game.
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Old 12 Jan 2006, 06:29   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Posts: 185
Default Re: this one is just so ridiculous... 1000 pts

Quote:
Originally Posted by General George
THAT'S JUST FETHING WRONG!: An Imperial Guard army may not have more models with heavy or special weapons than models with Lasguns. This is to represent the fact that if they could, they'd be the cheapest army in the game.
Ahhh thus spake the angry. Fix it? New fething rule?

the object of any game on an abstract level is to deal with the rules as they stand, and assume that your opponent does the same.

Chaos Marines have more options and more special abilities than regular marines for (I think) 1 less point. Tyranids can have more close combat sickos than I have heavy weapon sickos for far less points. etc. Nobody complains about the all mechanized Tau tank army or the all transportable Kult of speed minmaxes or the Terminator marine armies that my guard guys will inevitably face - and my guys will need all the heavy weapons they can get against other 'extreme' armies.

The rules are not what needs to be fixed my man, it's the players.
I have been told of (but not played against) a tyranid army that is in circulation that is more or less nothing but carnifexes and hive tyrants. If someone out there pulls this army out against me I most certainly will exploit all of the guardy 'beardiness' (where did that word come from anyway? We always called it 'cheese&#39. Any army is exploitable if you just want to frustrate and abuse an opponent, and if you do enough homework and number crunching. If you can talk your opponents into making more fun armies to play against, you can afford to dumb down your list to something less points-efficient. I would never take this army to a 'friendly' game, just to a bloodthirsty grudge duel against other players with powergaming armies.

I hate to start an arguement but I suggest you check out my other thread about my 'substandard' army at the same points cost. 'silly army' or something like that I called it.

the point of a game is to have fun. Fun takes on many forms... outsmarting your opponent with deployment and maneuvering, seeing your ultrabad Ctaan Lord or whatever rip his ranks apart, enjoying your own fluff, winning tournaments, many many ways to have fun.
If,as many of the posts by the elders on this site have shown in their list critiques) your object is to make the most points efficient army with a specific stong suit to play, then my list is a cute example of how this can be done. Try posting on the Tyrannid forum that they shouldn't overemphasize close combat.

Besides this philosophical difference, I think your math is wrong.
I have 12 heavy weapons teams, (3 each mortar, misslunch, autocan, and lascan). I have 2 plasguns on the stroops and 4 command grndlunches, 1 melta in the AF, and 2 Hflams, 1 battlecan,1 lascan on the vehicles - that adds up to 23 heavy/special weapons. i have 20 lasgunners and 5 laspistol-armed wannabe assault troops.
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