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How do you class a Vulture?
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 16:27   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default How do you class a Vulture?

Hello again fellas, here's a quick one for you:

The Vulture is classified as a Flyer. Should a weapon penetrate it's armour, do you roll on the normal vehicle damage tables and treat it as a fast moving skimmer or do you roll on the super-heavy flyer damage tables?

I'm aware that flyers can only recieve glancing hits, but I don't know what table I should roll on; because it's not a 'super-heavy' flyer, nor is it a conventional vehicle.
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When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 18:26   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Use the normal glancing damage table
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 21:13   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Flyers use the normal Glancing Hit table.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 08:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Is there an echo in here?

Cheers lads. Problem solved...I gotta get me a vulture. They're so damn expensive for space marines to field though! Not just the Vulture and weapons cost; I need my damocles before I can even include a vulture on my army list! But it'd be so cool to be able to call on air support whenever and wherever. The flexibility and quick reaction capability of assault troops and air power (not to mention deep strike) lends a certain desirability, but I wonder whether it's worth the points cost (about 300 points for my chosen armament). I have no doubt a vulture would be inordinately expensive...but there is that certain 'cool' factor that I just can't ignore.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 09:09   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

I didnt know SM could get a vulture...i only have the first IA book though...can they take a valkerie too?

Im in the same boat you're in; i too am going to spend stupid amounts of money on a Vulture for my Imperial Guard. The Valkerie is my favorite model but i dont think its worth the points. When i first saw it, before i had the rules, i wanted it to fill the role of anti-power armor. Seeing the options, though, made me realize that it really cant do this well, its going to be either anti-horde or anti-tank. Heavy bombs could work against MEQs, but they are way too expensive and dont feel right on a VTOL craft. Im going to have lascannons and HK racks for antitank (im not the biggest fan of HKs normally, but unlimited range on a vehicle that ignores LOS is awesome). For anti-horde it will be multiple rocket pods and autocannons, or 4 of the rocket pods instead. Mortars arent that great, but 8 of them, thats a different story. I need some of those rare-earth magnets for the weapon hardpoints, but i dont know yet if the 1/25th or 1/36th disks will be too thin. If you have used them in the past tell me what you recommend. I just want to make sure that there is no noticeable "drop" on the weapons hanging there, and i dont dare use a dremmel on the thin wing of a resin model that can only be bought as a whole kit. Punching a hole through would REALLY ruin my day.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 09:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Only Guard and Inquisitorial armies can use the Vulture. Marines cannot.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 10:32   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeighBusiness
I didnt know SM could get a vulture...i only have the first IA book though...can they take a valkerie too?

Im in the same boat you're in; i too am going to spend stupid amounts of money on a Vulture for my Imperial Guard. The Valkerie is my favorite model but i dont think its worth the points. When i first saw it, before i had the rules, i wanted it to fill the role of anti-power armor. Seeing the options, though, made me realize that it really cant do this well, its going to be either anti-horde or anti-tank. Heavy bombs could work against MEQs, but they are way too expensive and dont feel right on a VTOL craft. Im going to have lascannons and HK racks for antitank (im not the biggest fan of HKs normally, but unlimited range on a vehicle that ignores LOS is awesome). For anti-horde it will be multiple rocket pods and autocannons, or 4 of the rocket pods instead. Mortars arent that great, but 8 of them, thats a different story. I need some of those rare-earth magnets for the weapon hardpoints, but i dont know yet if the 1/25th or 1/36th disks will be too thin. If you have used them in the past tell me what you recommend. I just want to make sure that there is no noticeable "drop" on the weapons hanging there, and i dont dare use a dremmel on the thin wing of a resin model that can only be bought as a whole kit. Punching a hole through would REALLY ruin my day.
Having done a few calculations of my own on a little Excell jobby I like to call my 'Combat Calcuator TM' I've come to the conclusion that all those blast markers amount to very little actual damage, even against the likes of Eldar Guardians or Imperial Guardsmen. Statistically you can expect to slay about 4 of them. It's hard to calculate something like this for blast weapons because they can be so random, but I entered the variables with the assumption that against a cluster of infantry, each rocket that actually hits is assumed to hit 3 models (on average). Against infantry I'd prefer to use heavy bombs (possibly upgrading them to smart bombs) because that improved AP value is not to be underestimated. Problem is, you only get 6 of them. :-\ Heavy bombs are of no use at all against vehicles though, any direct hits are treated as if they hit the armour facing the aircraft (rather than the more desirable soft top armour ) Of course this is only maths and is not based on actual battlefield experience, which I'm sure is the advantage you have. So in your experience then you find a big old barrage of mortar rounds gets the job done against infantry then? Better than the weight of fire offered up by the multi-laser option?

Oh, and addressing your first question, Space Marines can take a single Vulture as a heavy support choice provided they bring along a Damocles command Rhino. Your alternative reason for fielding a Damocles is an orbital bombardment option, but I know which I'd prefer!

And Seriously Wargamer, you really need to read peoples messages properly before jumping in there. I admire your enthusiasm and I value your knowledge and support, but you're not doing yourself any favours when you're too eager to answer without making sure you know exactly what you're talking about first. Although I must admit, I didn't know Inquisitorial forces could take the Vulture, I thought they only had access to Valkyries for their storm troopers...but if they can take Vultures, perhaps I could include one as an allied heavy support choice (using the Daemonhunters allies rules), forgoing the Damocles altogether? Again, thanks for your help but try to relax a little, take your time; it's not a competition.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 11:09   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Well, yes, they can get one via using a Damocles... but that is an exception, not the norm.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 11:38   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeighBusiness
I need some of those rare-earth magnets for the weapon hardpoints, but i dont know yet if the 1/25th or 1/36th disks will be too thin. If you have used them in the past tell me what you recommend.
*Assuming Country Bumpkin accent* Oi be just simple country folk, oi've ne'er thort o' usin' them thar magnerts...that be roight clever! We's just gettin' our 'eads round these marvellous wheel contraptions! Ain't they summut!

Great idea! I was planning on using blue-tac, but a few tiny magnets would be perfect. But tell me more of this dremmel technique you've used in the past.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_Sanders
When all was finished, the battlefield was a smoking crater. UDC, Valoran, US Army, Tau, the Nazis, a random pirate ship, and a bunch of ninjas, all were enemies to the Vulture. All were turned into scrap metal. Or plastic. Depends which game system you play.
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Old 09 Jan 2006, 18:22   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How do you class a Vulture?

I havent used the dremmel, another reason why im scared to death of trying. i just hear thats how some people get those tiny round recesses in a model.

As far as the rocket pods, do they pin like normal mortars? i dont have my book right now so i dont remember. i think they would be useful against hordes of gaunts, for example, and if i could get enough under template i could possibly have more luck than rolling my poor BS for other weapons. also, i dont think vultures can take multilasers but again i dont have my book with me so im not 100% sure.
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