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commisars = inspector
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 21:55   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default commisars = inspector

i just thought that it would be good to share this knowledge giving i cant find another topic on this. Commissar means inspector in German so i was wondering if the commissars were more people who go around making sure that the army is fine and not tainted by chaos or anything. so instead of leading the army into battle they just inspect how the troops are fighting.

Any thoughts ???
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Old 10 Dec 2005, 21:57   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezing
i just thought that it would be good to share this knowledge giving i cant find another topic on this. Commissar means inspector in German so i was wondering if the commissars were more people who go around making sure that the army is fine and not tainted by chaos or anything. so instead of leading the army into battle they just inspect how the troops are fighting.

Any thoughts ???
They do... sort of.

A Commissar's role is to uphold morale. This means they give courage to those who have none, rally the broken, guide the lost, and put a bullet through the face of the incompitent.

Commissars work both on the front lines and the rear lines. However, it is in battle where they are most often needed, as such they join the fight every chance they get.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 00:12   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

Quote:
Originally Posted by freezing
i just thought that it would be good to share this knowledge giving i cant find another topic on this. Commissar means inspector in German so i was wondering if the commissars were more people who go around making sure that the army is fine and not tainted by chaos or anything. so instead of leading the army into battle they just inspect how the troops are fighting.

Any thoughts ???
They were modeled after russian WW2 commissars, who did pretty much what WG just said.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 03:32   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

A commissar is, by Earth standards, is a Soviet Communist Party Member who is also a member of the Red Army, and is assigned to a unit of the Red Army to ensure due loyalty, motives of action, and overall competance.
A Commissar, by Terra Standards, is a past student of the Schola Progenuim, a memebr of the Commissariat, and a fierce warrior, thier task: to ensure loyalty and bravery of the commanding officer.

In my opinion, the Commissar of 40k job is being slightly usurped by the Priest. The Priest now has teh task of ensuring loyalty, and teh Commissar of bravery.

Thats my personal take on it, though.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 10:47   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

First of all, take it from a native speaker, Kommissar translates as commissioner, not inspector...commissioner is a much higer police rank than inspector. If you disagree, [NEIN!]

Second, commies don't enforce bravery or uphold morale. They enforce obedience and encourage maximum effort. Failure to accomplish the mission is disobedient and indicates that the officer wasn't putting forth maximum effort. Failure on the commissar's part to properly punish (there is only one punishment) such a gross violation of all that is decent would only encourage others to "get by" with half efforts. Soon, you've got a whole galaxy of sick, lame, and lazy, all expecting someone else to do the dirty work and save their worthless hides. No, this system works well. Given the choice between a 90% chance of getting eaten by a tyranid and a 100% chance of a commissar's bullet to the skull, the officer in question will be highly motivated to make sure the tyranid does the dying. If the commissar is worth two bits, the officer better not allow his unit to take excessive casualties in the process. Wasting imperial resources is also punishable. It's expensive to ship in fresh meat!

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Old 11 Dec 2005, 11:33   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
[Hier kommt die Sonne]
by that comment i assume the mods dont speak german. he is right though that Kommissar is alot higher rank than inspector. Also commissars wheren't just in the russian army, the germans had something like that except it was to ensure that officers performed well, they didn't deal with rank and file soldiers as much.

How i see commissars is on the front lines they ensure orders are followed. if the captain says take that hill the commissar makes sure that the seargent takes that hill, if the commander says hold that bridge the commissar makes sure the lieutenant holds that bridge. and if anyone can't follow the orders the commissar will have a chat with him. a very short, loud, one word chat. when they are not in battle they make sure the men are kept busy and in line. Its not on the battlefield that chaos does its damage its when the soldiers are sitting in the bunker having a lho stick and passing a bottle around that chaos/the greater good takes over. In every chase of mutiny amongst soldiers the first act of rebellion is to kill their commissar. The roles of the priest and of the commissar are more conflicting but i think the priest focuses more on the faith while the commissar on obedience.
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Old 11 Dec 2005, 22:14   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

March10k, how dare you!

What you said is very true, but it all sums up to: if the CO is a wimp, he will die. If the CO doesn't do his job, he will die.
If not becasue of his lack of x, by the commissar.
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Old 12 Dec 2005, 10:43   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

Elessar, I think it's a fair assumption that the mods don't speak German. Anyway, what I said was a very mild flame, but hardly across the line. And given the target's flawed understanding of German, I doubt he understood it anyway.

I think the concept of a commissar is alive and well in the world today. I know from personal experience that the Iraqi army had them when Saddam was in charge. Anyone with a similar sounding job title today (my job title happens to translate exactly into the official title of the old Iraqi version of the commissar, the Thabot Amn) gets 100% cooperation from the Iraqis, the fear is so ingrained into them. And if you're a pleasant, helpful, nice sort of guy like me, they think you're an inhumanly good person not to abuse the authority that they assume you have (when in fact you don't have all that much, and certainly not the kind they think). Having Commissars in a society does unspeakable things to the average person, psychologically, but it does fantastic things for the army's performance.
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Old 12 Dec 2005, 15:43   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

i know they wont be showing up in britian any time soon, this country has been so bogged down by political correctness theres no possible way they'll allow it. the problems with commissar like people isn't on the battlefield its when they are off the abttle field and people would still run into no mans land than sit next to him at the mess. having that kind of people around breeds an intense fear that takes years to get rid of and it steals your dignity and thus your self respect. i'm glad most military organizations now a days aren't desperate enought to resort to that kind of discipline.
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Old 15 Dec 2005, 10:00   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: commisars = inspector

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elessar
Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k
DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CATDAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT DAS CAT
by that comment i assume the mods dont speak german.
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