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Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 20:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

Tefnik's Ogyrn thread is in process of being merrily hijacked into an argument over allied contingents in IG lists, and it seemed to me that the question could probably be asked separately, if only to contain the flames. ;D

So here it is: Is the idea of taking allies in an IG list a cheezy idea? Is this little more than a munchkin powergrab, or can it actually be cool and fun for all involved?
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 21:04   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

gamewise it can be both very effective or a crutch to the guard. i personally think its not cheesy unless you take it to the extreme. having some sisters with an inquisitor backing up the guardsmen is ok. deep striking 3 dozen greyknight terminators is pure cheese. also it opens up massive amounts of fluff for a particular regiment, inducting armies gives you loads of options for fluff.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 21:06   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

I think allies in general are a crutch. They clearly always offer the army something they cannot get normally, but I think for balance purposes no one should use them.

I take that back. Certain armies that are difficult to use, like Demonhunters or Witchhunters should be able to use some light allies, but I think everyone else is ok without them - outside of scenarios where it's appropriate.

I feel like a whore whenever I use chaos stuff in my damned list, but the list itself has huge anti tank holes that either need to be plugged up or you will face an uphill battle attempting to powerfist tanks.
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Old 20 Nov 2005, 23:16   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

Not technically allies, but in the same vein; I'm putting some kroot mercs into Gue'vassa list. One reason is for fluff, and they also give my a backup HtH unit and much needed numbers. I don't think that the mercs are cheesy with Imp Guard.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 04:35   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

to be honest, i like purist guard, DH and WH induct guard because they were made with that in mind, but Guard inducting other armies i find a bit powergaming, you are dealing with a weakness by using a different army, i like to overcome my weaknessess with what i have, but inducting things like Kroot mercs is fine because they arn't that much better than guard themselves... (if you have good fluff then its all good but just taking a squad of GK Termies and tons of "meatshield" guard then thats too bad)
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 06:45   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

how can you say inducting allies is powergamerish and then say kroot allies are ok. sorry if im getting this wrong but thats hypocracy, kroot are an amazing adition to guard providing a much needed assualt unit without compromising the amount of guardsmen you can take. at WS and St4 with two closecombat weapons they can match orks in close combat.
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 08:12   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

Elessar is 100% correct. From the perspective of IG, Kroot are bolter-toting close combat infiltrators. That's cheese in my book. Taking kroot in an IG list is just as bad as taking GK termies. It covers the same IG shortcoming, it's just fewer points per model.

For IG to take any allies is weak. The IG list, like most lists, was designed to stand alone. Any shortcomings they have are supposed to balance their strengths (pie-plate madness and more models than you can reasonably mow down in 6 turns!). Other armies were clearly designed to incorporate IG, such as DH and to a lesser extent WH. Reading the IG, DH, and WH codexes with an open mind will make this so clear that Ray Charles could see it! GW screwed up when they didn't make allies an "opponent's permission" option. In my opinion, they did it so people wouldn't hesitate to buy non-IG models for their IG armies.

Fluff-wise, I don't see allies making sense below the epic level. Maybe in 40k, it might make sense to augment a 5000 point IG army with a single squad of space marines...but 500 points of marines and 1000 points of guard? Not!
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 11:37   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

Can the presence of entertaining or humorous fluff mitigate the perceived cheeze of an allied contingent in a Guard list?
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 12:58   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

I'm dead against it, because it is almost always Guard + Inquisition.

Guard = Lots of numbers, good tanks, slow, no "tough" units.

Inquisition = Can be fast, Tough, few numbers, not many good tanks (save Land Raider).

Armies have weaknesses for a reason; running into a Guard gun-wall is bad at the best of times, but when there's Grey Knights to kill those who make it, there's more beard than Karaz a Karak!
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Old 21 Nov 2005, 15:46   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Allies--should the IG bring friends or go it alone?

inducted allies are okay for daemon hunters and witch hunters because those lists were made with it in mind. the guard and space marines dont need it because they are already self sufficient armies. while it may add some fluff and a little strategy, taking DH to get the edge over an opponent is pretty cheap. witch hunters are not so bad, but i would put it in a similar category
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