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assault squad
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Old 06 Nov 2005, 21:42   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default assault squad

i want to make a squad of assault troops. i wonder who is the best candidate. i am angry with the ability of close combat armies dominating the field by picking their targets and never allowing themselves to be shot at cuz they are locked. my bro plays a sicko ork list with trucks n stuff that can cross the field, unload, and engage in 1 or 2 turns without ever being shot at, so i need a 'counter attack' squad. i lack the figures for the meat shield conscripts squad, and want to build something powerful up close... not just a sacrificial 'slow them down' thing. are veterans the best option or is a tooled out command squad? on the one hand i am thinking veterans cuz 10 guys w laspist/ccw ready to counter attack plus 3 flamrs and a regimental variant for +1 WS could do a lot of damage... but its a 1 trick pony and the limited range makes it useless for all but the task it was designed for... plus the sarge is the only potential hardcore weapon in the squad. i only have so many figures so i have to pick one or the other... the other idea was a ccw armed command squad for the infantry platoon... give em all veteran stats, a bolt pistol to shoot before charging, and a ccw for the extra attack.... MAYBE a flamer trooper, add the commissar with the powerfist, the psyker for the force sword, and the priest w eviscerator to make em all nutty... give the J.O. an honorifica and powersword.. once again it is a 1 trick pony, and utilises a lot more characters - and a lot more points - but does this squad (the command one) seem more viable and useful than the vet squad? or should i just give up on the idea of a close combat I.G. squad?
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Old 06 Nov 2005, 21:52   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: assault squad

Firstly, you should blow the trukks to shreds before they can unload. Secondly, Imperial Guard are not intended to be an assault army, but if you realy want something that can make a mess of nearly anything, look no further than the not-so-lovable, thick-skulled brutes we call Ogryns.
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Old 06 Nov 2005, 23:06   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: assault squad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dra-Tuisich'Novae
Firstly, you should blow the trukks to shreds before they can unload.* Secondly, Imperial Guard are not intended to be an assault army, but if you realy want something that can make a mess of nearly anything, look no further than the not-so-lovable, thick-skulled brutes we call Ogryns.
1: hard to blow up trucks with no overwatch rules and they teleport between terrain that blocks LOS before i can ever shoot them... but more importantly....
2: thanks for the advice but i KNOW about ogryns that doesnt take much to figure out... but i, like many guard players kinda lack enough models of that type to make an ogryn assault army, and was wondering what could be done with actual guardsmen figs
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Old 06 Nov 2005, 23:16   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: assault squad

Go with the command also anything that can have a master crafted powerfist/sowrd and a plasma pistol should so give vet sergents oficers and anything else I forgot that combo also give your men Hardend fighters and warrior wepons.
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Old 06 Nov 2005, 23:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: assault squad

I'll reiterate my love of Ogryns, and again bang the drum for ebay. Watch ebay, and you can score some serious deals on Ogryns. Really.

As to the trukks, I'd go with more vehicles before I go with more infantry. Three Russes on the table can soak up a lot of close combat. In my own lists now, I tend to run a trio of tanks: One Demolisher with the plasma cannon sponsons, one Russ with triple bolters (hull + sponsons) and a pintle stubber, and one Russ with a hull Bolter and sponson flamers (and the pintle stubber). I usually put the Russes on one flank to operate as a pair, and the Demolisher right in the center of the board ( to make the most of its shorter range). They're a commanding presence, and most close combat troops can't scratch them.

When my regular troops get assaulted, I move to isolate the squads. I don't move people into counter-charge range, I move them OUT of consolidation range. And I move tanks in to flamer/bolter/pieplate the enemy when they finish slaughtering the men. The vehicles can't be locked in combat anyway.

In fact, you can do some really cool things with tankshocking that allow you to cut out pieces of a herd. Smart close combat players will try and spread their guys out so as to minimize template weapons. With a couple of well-placed tankshocks, however, you can bunch them back together and wipe out a mess of them with a flamer (or a high-risk Ordnance template placement).

To just to be clear, I say vehicles over "CC guard".

And a final note on price: Ogryns are 15 dollars a pop (sorry to the British players, I don't know the exchange rates). A tank is about 40, depending on the model you get. So ten Ogryns costs 150 bucks, which is also the cost of three and a half tanks, or thereabouts. Take that as you will.
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Old 07 Nov 2005, 08:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: assault squad

Yep, unless you take ogryns, you'll have little luck in assault versus greenskins. No matter how pimped out your guardsmen, they still strike second (IIRC), and they definitely still have T3...even a HQ with comissar, colonel, honorifica psycher, priest, and four meatshields is going to have problems with a horde of orcs...and they're expensive, to boot.

You really have three options:

Sentinels
Conscripts (50 to a block, led by a commie)
Ogryns

None of these are cheap, and none of them are what you want to hear. The truth is, there is no cheap and easy way to handle assaulty orcs if you play IG. Spruced up IG squads are nothing more than more expensive (points-wise) walking corpses.
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Old 07 Nov 2005, 11:24   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: assault squad

I was planning to create a squad of Hardened veterans, lead by a sgt with honorifica imperialis, some protection, storm bolter and power weapon. There would be 3 meltaguns that would autokill about 2 marines before the charge and the rest would pack frags and shotguns... If they are going to assault, shotguns would serve them better than lasguns. I think their chances would not be to great but they could do some damage and be lucky every know and then.

Another idea that I am thinking of starting after I have finished the Pohjolan 777th "Lost and found" and their SoB lassies and my Tau is an IG force based upon the Japanese army of WWII. It would among other things use Close order drill together with hardened fighters. Thet could produce some scary wave attacks...
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Old 07 Nov 2005, 14:08   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: assault squad

Ooh...human waves shouting "banzai!" ;D

The hardened vets sound fluffy, but they're toast...
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Old 07 Nov 2005, 14:55   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: assault squad

A Rough Rider squad with Lances, Pistols and a Power Weapon Sarg should kill about 8 Orks with combined shooting then the charge. They will kill 6 Marines. Its not such a bad return, plus you should always get the charge, always.

Against Orks, Sentinels are great. If the Ork unit doesn't have a Knob, your Sentinel won't die.
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Old 07 Nov 2005, 16:45   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: assault squad

one thing though, never, ever give your pysker anything at all unless its an honorifica imperialis. He has WS 2 and BS 2, so paying 25 points to give hime a force weapon is an insult to the rest of the guard. Pyskers are cheap so they are great with honorificas, but other than that keep them out of assaults. But when fighting orks you want numbers, don't even bother with power swords. Orks have a 6+ plus save, its just not worth it(unless you fight orks in mega armour) and the problem with power fists is your wasting your initiative. sentinels are armour 10 so every ork can kill it. also never use hardened veterans or stormtroopers as assault squads, in close combat a hardened veterans is exactly the same as a normal guardsman. Veterans are for important shooting like lascannons and chimera tank hunters(veterans+meltaguns+chimeras= dead tanks). one final thought about orks, always charge them. When they come within 12" of you go go in there, people don't realize that orks are only good on a charge, if you charge him orks wont get power of the waaagh which means you will always strike first. and dont even bother with hardened fighters. Hardened fighters=+15 to all squads, you hit on fours, orks hit on fours. Xenos fighters equals=+5 to all squads, you hit on 3s, orks hit on 3s.
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